U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Too bad she's totally nuts as a Scientologist.

Thanks alot man, I had to go and read some of her interviews. Totally ruins the fantasy.

Of course I'd still have some of that nice sex with her. But she'd probably want me to wear a ET mask and cry out to Xenu all night long.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

So the number of news reports is the final measure of how genuine or important a story is? What a ridiculous conclusion, completely lacking in common sense. Here's the Huffington Post BTW, for anyone who is interested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-..._b_687051.html



Again, lack of common sense. When you are serving in the military under military discipline and under a chain of command in addition to the loyalty and peer pressures and strictures of military protocol in the culture of the U.S. military, it is not the same as a cashier at McDonalds going to the Sun or an office temp calling Channel 5. The first soldier that does not go through proper channels or a proper legal advocacy group (as many did like the MRFF) but rather calls the newspapers will be ostrasized by all his peers and superior officers and has basically just ended his military career.

Does anyone get past my first post? Honestly, try reading this before being so damn condescending! Obviously I now believe the story and question why there isn't more coverage. And really....Huffington Post?

Your second point. I agree! I will write that again so no one misses it. I AGREE...

BUT! These guys have family. They don't have to go through any chain of command. And this is something that will get that chain of command discharged. Hence I wondered why it wasn't being picked up. Now it looks like it is.

[Orange]

It's unfair alright. 80 soldiers were punished and had to do some clean up. The others were punished much worse and had to go to a Christian rock concert!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Does anyone get past my first post? Honestly, try reading this before being so damn condescending! Obviously I now believe the story and question why there isn't more coverage. And really....Huffington Post?

Your second point. I agree! I will write that again so no one misses it. I AGREE...

BUT! These guys have family. They don't have to go through any chain of command. And this is something that will get that chain of command discharged. Hence I wondered why it wasn't being picked up. Now it looks like it is.

[CP Hostility]
Please, tell us why you take issue with the Huffington Post. Sure it's Liberal media but you make it sound like a tabloid? What am I supposed to do? Watch Fox News?

These guys have family? So they cry to their mommy if they can't go over the head of their commanding officer?

The "chain of command" will not get discharged. You may have the NCO who gave the order disciplined and the Major General in charge to be reprimanded at best. The prosetylizing evangelical practices and peer pressure rife in U.S. military culture will continue. This is not the first instance of such things happening. In fact, it seems to happen quite often. I remember there was a similar event in the Air Force a years ago with reports about airmen being discriminated against for claiming they had no religion. That event wasn't in the mainstream media very much either.
[/CP Hostility]

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Does anyone get past my first post? Honestly, try reading this before being so damn condescending! Obviously I now believe the story and question why there isn't more coverage. And really....Huffington Post?

Your second point. I agree! I will write that again so no one misses it. I AGREE...

BUT! These guys have family. They don't have to go through any chain of command. And this is something that will get that chain of command discharged. Hence I wondered why it wasn't being picked up. Now it looks like it is.

That doesn't get past your absurd 'mainstream media or it didn't happen' stance. That's just plain absurd, and that's how you decided to jump into things.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

[CP Hostility]
Please, tell us why you take issue with the Huffington Post. Sure it's Liberal media but you make it sound like a tabloid? What am I supposed to do? Watch Fox News?

These guys have family? So they cry to their mommy if they can't go over the head of their commanding officer?

The "chain of command" will not get discharged. You may have the NCO who gave the order disciplined and the Major General in charge to be reprimanded at best. The prosetylizing evangelical practices and peer pressure rife in U.S. military culture will continue. This is not the first instance of such things happening. In fact, it seems to happen quite often. I remember there was a similar event in the Air Force a years ago with reports about airmen being discriminated against for claiming they had no religion. That event wasn't in the mainstream media very much either.
[/CP Hostility]

What do you want from me? I doubted the story at first because it was on some obscure website only. This is the kind of story that new organizations love. Considering it happened to 80 guys it is something that would be tough to keep secret, hence my skepticism. I gave some possible scenarios how information about this could easily become public. At the very least in a local paper or news channel. Does this make my view clearer to you? Hardly, lacking common sense.


NOW....
I'd like you to actually come up with some evidence of proselytizing evangelical practices are rife in U.S. military culture and that THIS sort of thing happens quite often. You need more evidence than it happened a few years ago in the Airforce.

Here is a site with the religious make-up of the US forces. There would be 500,000 or more really annoyed people if proselytizing evangelical practices are rife in U.S. military culture.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by HOZ

What do you want from me? I doubted the story at first because it was on some obscure website only. This is the kind of story that new organizations love. Considering it happened to 80 guys it is something that would be tough to keep secret, hence my skepticism. I gave some possible scenarios how information about this could easily become public. At the very least in a local paper or news channel. Does this make my view clearer to you? Hardly, lacking common sense.


NOW....
I'd like you to actually come up with some evidence of proselytizing evangelical practices are rife in U.S. military culture and that THIS sort of thing happens quite often. You need more evidence than it happened a few years ago in the Airforce.

Here is a site with the religious make-up of the US forces. There would be 500,000 or more really annoyed people if proselytizing evangelical practices are rife in U.S. military culture.

[CP Hostility]
Just because the make-up of the military is diverse, it does not mean that people neccessarily speak out when something is endemic and systematic much like racism was in the military up until after the Korean war.

There is plenty of information out there regarding prosetylization in the U.S. military but I don't claim to be an expert in any of this, it is just what I've read and watched and come across over the years. You could start here: http://tinyurl.com/2eh5lgr or even the advocacy organization mentioned in the article which has many stories regarding religous freedom in the military. www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org

What I and many people don't understand is your position. Why did you take issue with this story? Why did you suddenly jump to attack it's veracity and made ill-concieved attempts to discredit it? I don't claim to be a military expert or journalist or anything but I have a good sense that the military likes to keep things in the military. If you are 'annoyed' in the military, the usual course of action is to shut up and follow your orders as per military discipline and culture. It is not the same as civilian life. News of this occurance will eventually filter out over time but slowly.
[/CP Hostility]

I am wrapping all of this in CP Hostility brackets because I do realize that I am butting heads and there is nothing personal here. I just don't agree with what you have said in this thread and it seems you are the lone voice in that view.

[HotHotHeat]

This is going to be a short post.

USA! USA! USA!

/end of of shameless drive by.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

What I and many people don't understand is your position. Why did you take issue with this story? Why did you suddenly jump to attack it's veracity and made ill-concieved attempts to discredit it?

Do I need to repeat myself? Honestly, you replied to the post where I explained why I was skeptical at first.

[Traditional_Ale]

It would seem the US millitary's answer to the spread of Islam is to spread something equally insidious. It's Jesus VS Allah in the battle for world domination.

[FIELD DAY]

*Insert my religion schtick here*

[/FIELD DAY]

[badnarik]

Originally Posted by Orange

It's unfair alright. 80 soldiers were punished and had to do some clean up. The others were punished much worse and had to go to a Christian rock concert!

Correct!

[SeeBass]

^^^
not if it was Stryper those guys rocked hard for baby jesus

[Displaced Flames fan]

Someone is in trouble.

Unlike the soldier, I'm not surprised to learn that some of those who chose not to attend are Christian. Not all Christians have to emerse themselves in 'Jesus' light' 24/7, nor do they wish to.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

This is going to be a short post.

USA! USA! USA!

/end of of shameless drive by.

Typical.

[peter12]

I find Hoz's skepticism, regarding most things that slander America or Israel or Christianity, quite refreshing in contrast to many posters on this board.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by peter12

I find Hoz's skepticism, regarding most things that slander America or Israel or Christianity, quite refreshing in contrast to many posters on this board.

That's neat... except this is slandering none of those things. This is slandering an American military officer who abused his power to force his faith on those who do not share it.

That is something to slander. That is something, as someone who supports Israel and America, you should be against since it is taking away freedom.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

That's neat... except this is slandering none of those things. This is slandering an American military officer who abused his power to force his faith on those who do not share it.

That is something to slander. That is something, as someone who supports Israel and America, you should be against since it is taking away freedom.

Absolutely. I just think it's kind of refreshing to have someone like HOZ around who demands that something is made clear before people jump to conclusions.

Anyway, in regards to the original subject, I agree with the poster who said the Christian rock concert was overall a worse punishment.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by peter12

Absolutely. I just think it's kind of refreshing to have someone like HOZ around who demands that something is made clear before people jump to conclusions.

So you find it refreshing to have someone that immediately says that anyone who takes beef with anything American/Israeli/Christian is wrong or lying without actually doing any research and just flying by the seat of their pants when they instigate the arguments that these threads degenerate into?

It'd be one thing if he gave factual or at least plausible reasons for why he disagrees but he didn't. He gave his very tenuous argument/opinion as to why he didn't believe it and then had it immediately refuted by the story getting picked up my more people.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by peter12

Absolutely. I just think it's kind of refreshing to have someone like HOZ around who demands that something is made clear before people jump to conclusions.

Anyway, in regards to the original subject, I agree with the poster who said the Christian rock concert was overall a worse punishment.

No kidding. Especially since so many on here instantly jump on anything that makes the US look bad.

And I say that as someone who has already said in this thread that officers abusing their powers probably happens a lot in any military.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

So you find it refreshing to have someone that immediately says that anyone who takes beef with anything American/Israeli/Christian is wrong or lying without actually doing any research and just flying by the seat of their pants when they instigate the arguments that these threads degenerate into?

It'd be one thing if he gave factual or at least plausible reasons for why he disagrees but he didn't. He gave his very tenuous argument/opinion as to why he didn't believe it and then had it immediately refuted by the story getting picked up my more people.

I take beef with the ridiculous notion that this has something to do with religious reasons, and isn't just some General abusing his power in a way that involves a Christian rock concert.

Seems like anything 'religious' is criticized, and yet the same General could force 80 of his troops to do cleanup because of any other reason, and nobody would even say anything, let alone start a thread about it.