City employee doesn't care for PD

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by bcb

You'd think the Herald might want to hire syndicated columnists, or at least find some local talent.

Umm, I think she qualifies as local talent.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

You think?!

Well please fill me in.

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by puckluck

The city really knows how to waste money.

why are they paving roads that are perfectly fine?

I was actually pretty pissed off as a citizen that the road that I drive on every day that was in excellent condition was being re-paved.

Is their main goal just to make the workers busy? I really don't understand why they need to re-pave a perfectly fine road. What a waste.

sweet post!!!


Bonaventure Drive was repaved in it's entirety! .... Guess what? It didn't need to be!

Meanwhile, They repaved the right lanes on Elbow Drive a long time ago, But The left lanes (both directions) have not had any attention in years!

Heading south on elbow in the left lane at that curve near 58th ave, My truck skips all over the place and I'm only doing 50! That road is a joke and yet they pave bonaventure????

don't mean to de-rail, But PuckLuck brings up a real good "Gear Grinder".

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by puckluck

The city really knows how to waste money. She has a point. You see city workers all the time just slacking off.

You see private sector workers slacking off all the time too.

Just because you're in the government, doesn't make you lazy. The City, Provincial and Federal governments hire some of the brightest and most motivated minds this country has to offer. I've seen it repeatedly.

Every company has slackers. Get over it.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You see private sector workers slacking off all the time too.

Just because you're in the government, doesn't make you lazy. The City, Provincial and Federal governments hire some of the brightest and most motivated minds this country has to offer. I've seen it repeatedly.

Every company has slackers. Get over it.

Every company does have slackers, but none as much as the City of Calgary. Their union pretty much makes it impossible to be fired.

Several people I know work for the city and them taking hour long naps on tax-payer dime is not out of the ordinary.

[metallicat]

It's always comical to me though, how many people are experts on how to run a city, run a police service, a fire department, a parks department...etc. So many smart people out there.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

It's always comical to me though, how many people are experts on how to run a city, run a police service, a fire department, a parks department...etc. So many smart people out there.

Well why don't you tell us how it's done o great and wise city employee

[metallicat]

I'm not the one claiming that I could do it better. I'm not an expert. You've got guys like puckluck who seem to have it figured out.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

It's always comical to me though, how many people are experts on how to run a city, run a police service, a fire department, a parks department...etc. So many smart people out there.

Just because someone criticizes how something is done, doesnt mean they are claiming to be experts on how to run a city.

Have you ever criticized how the Oilers run their franchise? I'm willing to bet you have and you probably don't think you could do a better job.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I'm not the one claiming that I could do it better. I'm not an expert. You've got guys like puckluck who seem to have it figured out.

Please tell me where I claimed I could do better? I wouldn't know how, but I'm sure that someone that is capable could be hired to run the city better and cheaper.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You see private sector workers slacking off all the time too.

Just because you're in the government, doesn't make you lazy. The City, Provincial and Federal governments hire some of the brightest and most motivated minds this country has to offer. I've seen it repeatedly.

Every company has slackers. Get over it.

Yes every company hires slackers and a great deal of them are on the web all day. As it appears you can't figure it out, the difference is that the civic employee are paid out of my taxes. The private sector employee is not.


The City deems it worthy that 1500 seasonal workers making $18.00 per hour, spend 16 hours each on Personal Development time that really has nothing to do with their job. It is not The City's job to empower seasonal staff.

Not when those of us who do not still live at home, and have a mortgage, are looking at a 6+% property tax hike.

[Hanni]

I work for a municipality (not the city) and we do orientation based on your job. So you don't go through a bunch of information you're not going to ever need. However, summer students still have 8 hours of orientation on the first day. Here it involves a little more than mowing grass though.

Things like chainsaws and wood chippers can easily kill you if you are not properly trained. If you don't know the limits of a large riding lawn mower you can roll it.

Another reason for excessive orientation is that students typically either fall in to one of two categories.
1) They think they can do anything even if they have no clue.
2) Are too afraid to ask if they don't understand.
Both are dangerous as they can lead to disaster.

And finally, if someone gets seriously hurt or killed on the job, and under investigation it is discovered that you, as an employer, did not provide proper training you are in serious .

So yes, orientation is boring, but necessary.

All that being said, hours and hours of a motivational speaker seems ridiculous no matter what job you are preparing for.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

It's always comical to me though, how many people are experts on how to run a city, run a police service, a fire department, a parks department...etc. So many smart people out there.

I'm sure many things are comical to you.

Being able to spot a flagrant waste of money does not mean we're wanting to run the city.

Instead of twisting the argument, try explaining how the above mentioned PD days are warranted?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hanni

I work for a municipality (not the city) and we do orientation based on your job. So you don't go through a bunch of information you're not going to ever need. However, summer students still have 8 hours of orientation on the first day. Here it involves a little more than mowing grass though.

Things like chainsaws and wood chippers can easily kill you if you are not properly trained. If you don't know the limits of a large riding lawn mower you can roll it.

Another reason for excessive orientation is that students typically either fall in to one of two categories.
1) They think they can do anything even if they have no clue.
2) Are too afraid to ask if they don't understand.
Both are dangerous as they can lead to disaster.

And finally, if someone gets seriously hurt or killed on the job, and under investigation it is discovered that you, as an employer, did not provide proper training you are in serious .

So yes, orientation is boring, but necessary.

All that being said, hours and hours of a motivational speaker seems ridiculous no matter what job you are preparing for.

I'd almost be fine with that, but if you look at the story their actual training was watching a 20 minute film

I did paving for a living for a private company and my orientation was on the job on the first day while I was working. Don't dive into hot asphalt, don't stick your body parts in moving equipment. If you last the week on the shovel crew we might train you to operate machinery.


There's no reason to have a one day or 2 day orientation session for seasonal employees that covers conflict resolution, a motivational speaker, and a 20 minute film.

To me this is a tremendous waste of time and money.

These are things that don't show up in audits because they're effectively hidden costs. They got paid to sit in a gym, I bet they even factored this into productivity reports. I'm glad this woman wrote this story, I'm willing to be there's a lot more in the way of interesting wastes of money.

Another reason why I can't vote for any of the current members, City Hall needs to be gutted and audited independently.

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'd almost be fine with that, but if you look at the story their actual training was watching a 20 minute film

I did paving for a living for a private company and my orientation was on the job on the first day while I was working. Don't dive into hot asphalt, don't stick your body parts in moving equipment. If you last the week on the shovel crew we might train you to operate machinery.


There's no reason to have a one day or 2 day orientation session for seasonal employees that covers conflict resolution, a motivational speaker, and a 20 minute film.

To me this is a tremendous waste of time and money.

These are things that don't show up in audits because they're effectively hidden costs. They got paid to sit in a gym, I bet they even factored this into productivity reports. I'm glad this woman wrote this story, I'm willing to be there's a lot more in the way of interesting wastes of money.

Another reason why I can't vote for any of the current members, City Hall needs to be gutted and audited independently.

Like I said, hours of a motivational speaker is ridiculous. To your last point, changing councilors probably won't change much as far as this is concerned. They are seldom if ever involved in daily operations. Things like this most likely come from management.

I'm sure the fact that this is a unionized environment plays some role as well, though never being involved with a union on any level I don't know for sure.

An audit of an the entire operation right down to the seasonal workers seems excessive. I understand your frustration as a taxpayer, but I can't imagine the cost of an audit of that size.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hanni

Like I said, hours of a motivational speaker is ridiculous. To your last point, changing councilors probably won't change much as far as this is concerned. They are seldom if ever involved in daily operations. Things like this most likely come from management.

I'm sure the fact that this is a unionized environment plays some role as well, though never being involved with a union on any level I don't know for sure.

An audit of an the entire operation right down to the seasonal workers seems excessive. I understand your frustration as a taxpayer, but I can't imagine the cost of an audit of that size.

The current councilors basically blocked any attempt at an outside audit, they also fired the sitting auditor once she exposed what a shambles the procurement processes were.

If you look at 1500 seasonal workers at 18 bucks an hour sitting in this for even a day that comes out to about $216,000 in wasted time and that doesn't include the costs for putting this together and hiring a motivational speaker. That type of money would go a long way towards auditing.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Yes every company hires slackers and a great deal of them are on the web all day. As it appears you can't figure it out, the difference is that the civic employee are paid out of my taxes. The private sector employee is not.


The City deems it worthy that 1500 seasonal workers making $18.00 per hour, spend 16 hours each on Personal Development time that really has nothing to do with their job. It is not The City's job to empower seasonal staff.

Not when those of us who do not still live at home, and have a mortgage, are looking at a 6+% property tax hike.

I've worked for the government. For a long time. And now I work in the private sector. So don't tell me I haven't figured it out; I've been in the trenches and seen both sides of the coin. These "slackers" are an exception to the rule.

You may not need a professional development program for being a season Parks worker, but it is certainly advantageous if you have a permanent career-oriented role. And besides - if you're working with potentially dangerous equipment, the employer has to do things to cover all their bases in case of an accident. That's a good chunk of why there's an eight-hour orientation.

And if you're worried about wasteful tax spending, then I suggest you make a case of it and get involved in the next election. You seem to be seriously bothered enough by this to thrust yourself into a campaigning or donation role for a candidate that can clean up the excess you have a problem with.

[Dan02]

My question is why the hell is the city paying lawn mowers 18.80+ per hour as a starting wage in the first place. I should do my summer employees a favour and tell them to all get jobs for the city, they'd get paid more and wouldn't work as hard...

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Dan02

My question is why the hell is the city paying lawn mowers 18.80+ per hour as a starting wage in the first place. I should do my summer employees a favour and tell them to all get jobs for the city, they'd get paid more and wouldn't work as hard...

This is part of their living wage policy.

[FireFly]

She makes some good points. Summer temp parks jobs probably don't require a 2 day orientation. For other positions, absolutely. It may be City policy that every employee in every department gets the same orientation by the guy regardless of the position they've been hired for. If that's the case, they need to rethink it, and restructure it so that only relevant topics are presented to people. Teamwork for example should be presented to everyone, but customer satisfaction to the parks department doesn't makes much sense.