A good example of why athiests suck

[Reggie Dunlop]

Roadside memorials are a hazard. Go to a graveyard if you want to see stone crosses.

Wise decision.

[puckluck]

The only problem people should have with crosses on the side of a road are the distraction, and even then that is a pretty stupid argument.

[Azure]

Soon after that, they'll come after the Silver Cross here in Canada.



Can't wait for that one, considering it is given to the next of kin for anyone who loses his life in combat operations for Canada.

[SeeBass]

If you wish to mark a grave is there something wrong with a curved tombstone?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by peter12

Are you serious?

Well if there is a problem with a cross being shown on public property, better start with the national cemetery too.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Why? Because some atheists believe you shouldn't tell fairy tales to children, and raise them to believe in ideas for which there is no evidence?

Rational critical thought is often at odds with religious proclamation. I prefer the former to the latter, and in public society my government shouldn't be endorsing religious doctrine.

I suppose that's pretty black and white. Takes a bigger mental leap than sitting the pews accepting everything that's said. Hard to believe it's narrow minded.

So its ok for you to push your atheism based beliefs on people, but its apparent that you show a lack of respect for someone who has religious beliefs.

While Atheists continually say "Keep it in the church churchy" It seems alright for them to publically critisize anyone who has beliefs. And it seems to be ok for Atheists to be fairly rude and beligerant about it in public forums while ignoring peoples right to worship and belive if they choose to.

Personally, I am not religious, I don't promote my beliefs, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who choose to believe, and I don't go out of my way to attack it or belittle it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

If you wish to mark a grave is there something wrong with a curved tombstone?

Your disbelief in the existence of God must really be threatened if you have a problem with a cross being displayed as a memorial symbol.

[puckluck]

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

[HPLovecraft]

I wonder what Logitech is insinuating with that "+" sign on my keyboard?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I think that in the western world, the international symbol for a grave is a cross. Maybe people that aren't christian need to stop being so anal about the symbol. It's no stupider than the religious dumasses that argue that marriage is a man and a woman and "why cant they just call it a civil union".

Its the symbol because mainstream society until the last 20 years has been religiously driven. Everything revolved around it, and if you chose to be different you were ostracized, outcast, and even in some countries to this day stoned to death or executed in some manner. While I am personally not offended by the sight of a cross as a memorial on the roadside, it is the principal that in public and on public land there should be no religious preference. Technically, that includes memorials.

The one argument I can make for the cross as a religion free symbol is that it is easy to build in a pinch with minimal materials to mark a grave, so I agree with you on that one.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Where does this have anything to do with any religion or faith. As mentioned, these were privately funded memorials, they used the Cross as a marker or symbol in this case not as a religious symbol. The ground was probably not consecrated.

It was public land, so I seriously hope it's not consecrated. That's my only issue here.

Not sure how a cross CAN'T be a religious symbol.

Its pretty much acknowledged that Crosses are usually used as burial markers.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I've obviously seen them used as such, so I understand what you're getting at, but to argue everyone should see a clearly christian symbol as a grave marker stretches it much too far.

These weren't Christians slapping crosses on everything. These were people putting up a memorial to the police.

I see it as the court rightfully protecting the public from religion. The people responsible have two ways to proceed.

1) Put it on private land where the public isn't forced to see it.
2) Put a non-religious memorial up on the public land

It has nothing to do with any organized religion. These atheists were being petty.

It's not petty to enforce the separation of church and state. It's an exercise of rights, properly conducted under the rule of law.

If you don't like the law, elect legislators to change it. This is how progressive society operates.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I wonder what Logitech is insinuating with that "+" sign on my keyboard?

To the Supreme Court, my fellow ATHEISTS. Copy of the God Delusion tucked under our arms and away we go!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well if there is a problem with a cross being shown on public property, better start with the national cemetery too.

You didn't actually read the story did you?

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

If you don't like the law, elect legislators to change it. This is how progressive society operates.

Progressive society sues for anything and everything, why bother with democracy?

[Thor]

My only concern is that what memorial do you put up for those who fought in battle and had no faith. Do you dishonor them with having a cross, or is that the right way to go.

I mean a jewish fallen solder given a cross would be considered offensive to the family of the soldier, does the christian cross have the universal ok to be viewed as honoring the man/woman who fell for their country or is it insulting to their being if they were not christian.

I guess it all depends on the person, the situation.

I'm struck a lot here in Iceland by what I've spoken about before, the cultural christianity by the nordic nations. In nations of majority non believers, they identify themselves as christians, yet don't believe in god. We see in Iceland lots of crosses on the roads and on memorials for people who died on the roads, atheists put those up, atheists died on those roads.

I think Troutman is on to something here, something I wasn't as aware of living in the bubble of North America, that there is a vitriol from many American atheists. However isn't that often the case when someone feels oppressed or marginalized as in many parts of the states openly atheist people feel.

A friend of mine, a former marine who fought in the early part of the Iraq was lost a number of fellow soldiers and in our many discussions about religion in the military he said plenty of soldiers who die in battle are not religious at all but are given the cross as a symbol of their sacrifice.

Who's to say this is right, I mean if I fought in battle and died I don't know how I'd feel if a cross was over my dead body.

A few years ago it would have bothered me a lot more, being in Iceland reminded me how here its symbolism and not religious indoctrination. I think its hard to be reminded of the less harmful symbolism celebrating spirit, sacrifice for a fallen soldier because of the hostile feelings towards atheists.

So in conclusion, since I'm all over the place; the atheists are their own worst enemy in this story, but of course there is a point to their argument... I just think its the wrong battle to be waging, lets work on other issues.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Azure

Soon after that, they'll come after the Silver Cross here in Canada.



Can't wait for that one, considering it is given to the next of kin for anyone who loses his life in combat operations for Canada.

Why would they come to Canada?

[Reggie Dunlop]

This is CPS Constable Richard Sonneberg's memorial just off of Deerfoot (incidently sitting on provincial land). As we can see, it contains a cross.

With all due respect to the memory of the departed, why do we have this?

Elaborate roadside memorials are a fairly recent phenomenon (last 20 years or so) Civilian peace officers have died on the job since the concept was established.

The Sonnenberg memorial is totally unnecessary and on public land.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Its the symbol because mainstream society until the last 20 years has been religiously driven. Everything revolved around it, and if you chose to be different you were ostracized, outcast, and even in some countries to this day stoned to death or executed in some manner. While I am personally not offended by the sight of a cross as a memorial on the roadside, it is the principal that in public and on public land there should be no religious preference. Technically, that includes memorials.

The one argument I can make for the cross as a religion free symbol is that it is easy to build in a pinch with minimal materials to mark a grave, so I agree with you on that one.

Well as an athiest, I really don't care about crosses. I don't mind if grieving families put them up on the side of the Trans Canada, and I don't care that it's on the Alberta flag. Just because something was born in some religious way, doesn't mean it's somehow tainted forever. FFS, I'm baptized.

People need to chill the F out and stop being offended by everything. IMHO, of course.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Personally, I am not religious, I don't promote my beliefs, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who choose to believe, and I don't go out of my way to attack it or belittle it.

I don't think you respect athiests for their beliefs. I mean would you plant a cross in a Jewish cemetery? Clearly not!

So why plant one on a piece of property both you and I own, when you know it's something I'd rather not have inflicted on me? It's offensive.

I'm not telling anyone they can't believe whatever they want. I just don't want to be subjected to it, and have the right under law to protest. How is that unfair?

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

This is CPS Constable Richard Sonneberg's memorial just off of Deerfoot (incidently sitting on provincial land). As we can see, it contains a cross.

With all due respect to the memory of the departed, why do we have this?

Elaborate roadside memorials are a fairly recent phenomenon (last 20 years or so) Civilian peace officers have died on the job since the concept was established.

The Sonnenberg memorial is totally unnecessary and on public land.

Not huge, like the crosses in question here.

It's the "unavoidable" determination here that carried the decision. One I agree with. I have no issue with religious expression that is avoidable.