Lindsay Lohan gets 90 days in prison

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I call bull. Its never 90 hard days. Today's criminals have it pretty soft in prison compared to past decades.

I wonder what the rate of recidivism is in Russia or China, where they aren't so lenient towards criminals in their prison system. I suspect if you've ever served time in a Russian or Chinese jail, you will avoid at all costs, going back. .... unlike here in Canada and the USA.

Not saying Canada's prisons should all be like the above mentioned countries, but I think there certainly is a place for them for the hard core criminal element that has no intention to change.

First of all why would it not be 90 hard days if you decided to act out the entire time. Hard compared to the gulag? No, but you'd certainly loses any privileges, which is exactly what you were talking about above.

Just to break it down, here's the current system v. your proposal in the case of someone who acts like an idiot while incarcerated:

Current system: 90 day sentence, act like an idiot, refused parole and early release, serve 60-90 days.

Your proposal: 14 day sentence, act like an idiot, serve 14 days.

Which one looks like a harsher sentence to you?

Your proposal means that regardless of behavior you'd be out in 14 days, the current system dictates that those who behave well will be released earlier, thereby encouraging good behavior, which is also conducive to an environment where actual education and rehabilitation can occur.

I've gotta say I'm rather humored by your comparison to Russian and Chinese prison systems as if they are shining lights in the world of correction. Of course those nations don't have any massive problems with hardened criminal elements and violence?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

I've gotta say I'm rather humored by your comparison to Russian and Chinese prison systems as if they are shining lights in the world of correction. Of course those nations don't have any massive problems with hardened criminal elements and violence?

Of course they aren't shining lights... and by no means do I say we should copy their systems.... but I suspect that in a lot of cases the system works. I don't know what the rate of recidivism is over there, but I suspect its probably a lot lower than here. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me the facts.

And as for hardened criminals and violence.... there is a lot more to it than their punitive correctional system.... a lot more. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Of course they aren't shining lights... and by no means do I say we should copy their systems.... but I suspect that in a lot of cases the system works. I don't know what the rate of recidivism is over there, but I suspect its probably a lot lower than here. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me the facts.

And as for hardened criminals and violence.... there is a lot more to it than their punitive correctional system.... a lot more. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh I get it, this is one of those situations where you throw out some random claim and it becomes true unless I can do the legwork for you and disprove it.

So no, actually you show me the facts. You made the claim, you support it. That's how these things work.

Or, we can do it your way and I'll counter with this:

Recidivism rates in Russia and China are higher than in the US and Canada. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me the facts.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

Current system: 90 day sentence, act like an idiot, refused parole and early release, serve 60-90 days.

Hardly anybody is refused parole for non-violent crimes and almost everybody gets automatic parole after serving 2/3rds of their sentence.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

Oh I get it, this is one of those situations where you throw out some random claim and it becomes true unless I can do the legwork for you and disprove it.

So no, actually you show me the facts. You made the claim, you support it. That's how these things work.

Or, we can do it your way and I'll counter with this:

Recidivism rates in Russia and China are higher than in the US and Canada. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me the facts.

DRAT!!! Foiled again!!

However, notice that I didn't come out with a black and white statement. I said I suspect.... and I said that for a reason.... I believe that information on Russia's or China's recidivism would be very difficult to obtain (if not impossible) and if it was out there can you believe it?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Hardly anybody is refused parole for non-violent crimes and almost everybody gets automatic parole after serving 2/3rds of their sentence.

And what is 60 out of 90? 2/3rds?

Also, are these more made up stats that you think are true unless someone disproves them?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

And what is 60 out of 90? 2/3rds?

Also, are these more made up stats that you think are true unless someone disproves them?

Yes, 60 days out of 90 days is 2/3rds and almost everybody gets out after serving 2/3rds... it's generally automatic. However, a lot get out only after serving less than 2/3rds. Its a fact.

I get my information from my cousin who is a correctional officer in Saskatchewan. By the way, you should hear the stories he tells about the system and the way it "works".

The guards don't run the prison, the prisoners do. The guards are just there to try and keep a lid on things.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yes, 60 days out of 90 days is 2/3rds and almost everybody gets out after serving 2/3rds... it's generally automatic. However, a lot get out only after serving less than 2/3rds. Its a fact.

I get my information from my cousin who is a correctional officer in Saskatchewan. By the way, you should hear the stories he tells about the system and the way it "works".

The guards don't run the prison, the prisoners do. The guards are just there to try and keep a lid on things.

Well there's a thorough study if I ever hear one

I don't even get what your point is, 60 is still longer than 13. So is 20. You haven't even attempted to address the ability of a good behavior system to influence rehabilitation either. Honestly, what's the point. I'm sure your response will be based on the tales of someone else you know who once talked to a guy at a bar in Reno or something anyways.

[Rerun]

My point is that the system should be honest in what it tells the public. If the judge sentences the person to 90 days but there is a strong possibility of parole in 13, he/she should say so.
The public is being deceived. They are thinking the convicted felon is getting one sentence when in fact the felon spending much less time in prison than what they were led to believe.

If someone murdered my wife and they received say 20 years (which I would probably consider too light to begin with... I'd be all for the death penalty), I would expect that they would serve 20 or a good portion of the sentence. If, they got out in 10, I would be really pissed off.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well there's a thorough study if I ever hear one

I tend to believe him over some bleeding heart liberal sitting in their ivory tower. He's there every day. He knows what kind of garbage is sitting in our prison system and is getting out on parole every day, without serving the full term of their sentence.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Rerun

My point is that the system should be honest in what it tells the public. If the judge sentences the person to 90 days but there is a strong possibility of parole in 13, he/she should say so.
The public is being deceived. They are thinking the convicted felon is getting one sentence when in fact the felon spending much less time in prison than what they were led to believe.

If someone murdered my wife and they received say 20 years (which I would probably consider too light to begin with... I'd be all for the death penalty), I would expect that they would serve 20 or a good portion of the sentence. If, they got out in 10, I would be really pissed off.

Is th point of the justice system to punish, act as a correctional facility, or make Rerun feel better that Lindsay is in jail for 90 days, not 13 days?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Is th point of the justice system to punish, act as a correctional facility, or make Rerun feel better that Lindsay is in jail for 90 days, not 13 days?

I don't give a crap about Lindsay and whether or not she spent time in prison. Frankly, I think the sentence was a little harsh.

Its the dishonesty (towards the general public who mostly don't know how the system 'works') in sentencing I care about.... and how early, early parole is way too easy to get these days.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I don't give a crap about Lindsay and whether or not she spent time in prison. Frankly, I think the sentence was a little harsh.

Its the dishonesty (towards the general public who mostly don't know how the system 'works') in sentencing I care about.... and how early, early parole is way too easy to get these days.

So, since you believe so strongly in this - what have you done about it?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Is th point of the justice system to punish, act as a correctional facility...

By correctional I assume you mean rehabilitation. If thats the case, both.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So, since you believe so strongly in this - what have you done about it?

Bitch and complain on here.... just like everybody else does.

[fredr123]

The National Parole Board has some helpful information available on its website regarding parole and other forms of release in Canada.

Types of Release: http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/infocntr/factsh/rls-eng.shtml

Myths and Realities: http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/infocntr/m...lity-eng.shtml

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Bitch and complain on here.... just like everybody else does.

Sigh... old people these days. Such a sense of entitlement, all they do is bitch and moan.

[CaptainCrunch]

Living with Lohan

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chi...dy-issues.html

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I don't give a crap about Lindsay and whether or not she spent time in prison. Frankly, I think the sentence was a little harsh.

Its the dishonesty (towards the general public who mostly don't know how the system 'works') in sentencing I care about.... and how early, early parole is way too easy to get these days.

I'm not sure it's dishonesty so much as a combination of a lack of information about the NPB and a lack of most people taking the time to learn how the system really works. Admittedly, I wasn't fully aware of all the ins and outs of release until a colleague was appointed to the NPB.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by valo403

And what is 60 out of 90? 2/3rds?

Also, are these more made up stats that you think are true unless someone disproves them?

Beaucoup stats here: http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/rprts/pmr/...09/5-eng.shtml

Sometimes it's fun to use real numbers in arguments.