How to build a fence

[wooohooo]

So I'm looking at building a fence... heard it was pretty easy so I decided to try it myself.

We have an old fence that collapsed from the wind and crazy weather. Now I just want a cheapo fence right now so nothing too extravagant.

To set the fence posts to my understanding... please correct me if I'm wrong
-Make holes 4 feet deep and 12 inches wide. Pour a few shovels of gravel in, insert fence post and pour concrete to the very top. Rinse and repeat.
-Make another fence post 8 feet from either side (middle) then put posts in the middle and so forth.

Q:For the railings how do I attach these on? Do I attach these directly onto the posts?
Q: Is that the proper way of doing fence posts? How do I make sure they are all sitting at the same height?
Q: What kind of wood should I be using? Pressure treated? Cedar? I just want to use the cheapest but best wood available. Not looking for aesthetics

[Jimmy Stang]

You can get fence packages from Totem that will give you the right amount of lumber and, if I remember correctly, some diagrams to show you how to put it all together.

When we did our fence, we tried to get down to 3 feet. But thanks to clay and rock, some are 2.5 deep. Not ideal, but we broke an auger bit trying to go any further. Fence still stands 6 or 7 years later with no signs of tilting or sagging.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

So I'm looking at building a fence... heard it was pretty easy so I decided to try it myself.

We have an old fence that collapsed from the wind and crazy weather. Now I just want a cheapo fence right now so nothing too extravagant.

To set the fence posts to my understanding... please correct me if I'm wrong
-Make holes 4 feet deep and 12 inches wide. Pour a few shovels of gravel in, insert fence post and pour concrete to the very top. Rinse and repeat.
-Make another fence post 8 feet from either side (middle) then put posts in the middle and so forth.

Q:For the railings how do I attach these on? Do I attach these directly onto the posts?
Q: Is that the proper way of doing fence posts? How do I make sure they are all sitting at the same height?
Q: What kind of wood should I be using? Pressure treated? Cedar? I just want to use the cheapest but best wood available. Not looking for aesthetics

A: There are little hanger boxes that screw into the post at the correct height, and then you slot in your cross-members, and screw them into the box as well. They look like something you’d see in electrical wiring. Very simple, very cheap.

A: You buy posts longer than the hole depth + desired height, and then cut them down. (ie. If you have 4 foot holes, and want a 6 foot fence, buy 12 foot posts)

A: Pressure treated. Buy the correct type of screws for working with PT lumber to avoid corrosion or discolouration issues

And you will thank yourself later if you buy 2 of those strap-on levels that are available at any hardware store - they let you check the straightness in both dimensions (fore-aft, and left to right). Get two so you can work on multiple posts at once.

12” holes consume an enormous amount of concrete, I think 8” holes are sufficient at 4 foot depth, and only used 12” holes where rocks meant I couldn’t hit a 4 foot depth.

[Methanolic]

I built a fence at my sisters place using 4x4 posts and instead of Digging and mixing conrete I used 36" fence spikes. It was a lot easier and faster.

That was 8 years ago and the entire 70 feet of fence is still straight, level, plumb and solid as rock.

[Old Yeller]

4 feet deep... good luck

I'd dig the holes slightly wider than the post and try to get down between 2.5 and 3 feet. If you only get down to 2.5 feet, enlarge the width a bit so you can put more concrete in but really, I think I only got down to just over 2 feet on a couple of my posts and the fence is rock solid.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Q: Is that the proper way of doing fence posts? How do I make sure they are all sitting at the same height?

lots of great advise already posted

for the above question.... do you know anyone with a laser level/transit? (a spinning laser that sits on a tripod - you have a hand-held sensor that beeps and when you get level with the laser you get a solid tone - make a mark and cut your posts down to the mark)

http://www.askthebuilder.com/B67_Usi...s_Levels.shtml

[Barnes]

Have someone dig the holes for you if they can access your yard with a bobcat. It cost me about $100 for 140' worth of fence.

I placed all the bottom 2x4's around the whole fence and built a jig that sat at each fence post and on the bottom 2x4 so I could nail the middle 2x4, then place the jig on the middle 2x4 to get the top one in.

[bradster57]

Rule of thumb is to keep 1/3 of your post in the hole. So if you want a 6 foot fence, get 9 foot posts. 3 feet in the hole, 6 feet above ground.

[afc wimbledon]

Remember to check if the city has a limit on fence height, in Vancouver it's 6 ft max.

[Hanna Sniper]

- Go 4' and 8" wide is enough for a 4x4. 12" for when you are using a 6x6
- at a 4' deep, gravel not necessary just two shovel fulls of cement before you set the post it will seal the bottom of the post so moisture doesn't seep up from the bottom of the post.
- make sure you holes are straight, if they funnel and get smaller as it gets deeper the frost will lift the post over time.

- Cement to the top.... Not necessary... BUT anytime you can remove the chance of water sitting against the wood causing rot it's not a bad thing.

Q: Is that the proper way of doing fence posts? How do I make sure they are all sitting at the same height?

Like listed above, of 10' is needed and you buy 12' post to allow for any grade change in the ground... just cut off the top of the post to the desired height at the end. Thats the easy way, harder way is you can set up a level line with a mark on the post and while setting the post you raise/lower you mark to the level line set up.

Q: What kind of wood should I be using? Pressure treated? Cedar? I just want to use the cheapest but best wood available. Not looking for aesthetics

cheapest and best don't work together, PT is the cheapest and Cedar is the best.
My personal advise is use PT and just refinish it yourself seasonally (or Bi), people are lazy but it truly is the best of both worlds and the more you keep it up kept the easier it really is to do.

[Sr. Mints]

Don't forget to call Alberta One Call before you dig the post holes, or you could be liable if you hit something and it wasn't marked. It's a free service.

[zamler]

Always put some clean gravel in the bottom of the post hole, it will increase the life of the post. Otherwise water will pool in the bottom, freeze and thaw, and cause the post to crack and rot faster than normal. It doesn't have to be much just a few inches. 4 feet is excessive, 3 feet is fine. You don't have to use concrete if you don't want to, it depends on the soil. If you have very soft, black soil all the way down, concrete is better but still not 100% necessary. You will need between 2-3 bags of concrete per hole, so that can add up quick. If you don't use concrete, the key is to pack the dirt properly, do it in several steps instead of filling the hole then hoping to pack it all down properly.

If you do use concrete, get the stuff specifically designed for post holes. You pour it in dry, then soak it down, saves mixing. 8 foot span is fine, BUT if you go 8 feet, most fence designs will sag after a few years, so keep that in mind. Go 6 foot or even less to minimize this. Also, instead of using 4x4 posts, I would go with 4x6 instead. The cost difference is not large, and they are much stronger and don't twist and warp nearly as easily.

For fasteners, make sure you use hot dipped galvanized. Or deck screws are okay but not ideal. Don't use construction screws, they will rust after a few years these are designed for indoor use, but so many people use them out doors. Use a joist hanger for the horizontal top and bottom beams (assuming you are making this type of fence). They don't cost much, and make it much easier to build the structure. Using spiral galvanized nails is the best fastener actually, it's faster than using screws, and looks better, and costs a bit less. It also will never come out, downside is if you make a mistake, removing it will be difficult.

For lumber, treated is fine and costs the least. I don't like it for fence boards though because the lumber is rarely straight, cracks, and worst it shrinks up to 15% as it dries. So you WILL have gaps between the boards. Ipe wood is a fantastic fence material, but is a very hard wood and not readily available. But if you want a material that will never crack, warp, split etc. this is the way to go. Using Ipe, you will never have to build a fence again. Cedar is very nice to work with, there is really no down side except the cost. It stains especially well, although most people just leave it as is and let it get stained and discoloured.

Finishing treated lumber is necessary despite what most people think. Yes, treated lumber can withstand the elements, but it still will age and crack over time. It's best to wait a couple of months for the wood to dry out, depending on how long it's been in storage. Oil finishing is the best, or a hybrid like "flood" type finishes are also really good. Don't use Thompson's Water Seal is is a second rate product. Make sure you put a cap or some type of protector on the top of the post, otherwise rain will be driven into the post and age it much faster.

For my fence, I made "fence panels" myself using a 2x4 frame and plywood, and glued it all together using construction adhesive. I caulked all the seams using paintable silicone, and then painted them white. These panels are impervious to warping, won't shrink, and don't have any gaps. I'll post pics if anyone is interested in building a fence this way.

[sa226]

Lots of good advice,

you said aesthetics aren't an issue so that makes it much easier.

It depends on what the fence is for.

My experience is limited to fences for fields.

4 feet deep is a lot.....someone said 1\3 of the post thats a good rule. I used to dig holes 2-3 feet deep for a 7 foot post.

People are mentioning cement and gravel, depending on the soil you would be surprised how well good ol' mother earth holds a post. All you would need is a spade, level and a tamper to put in the posts. If you cement them in, it makes it that much harder if you ever want to move the fence or replace the posts or whatever.

I don't quite know what you mean by railings, but one nicer way to install them is to cut a slot out of the post that can fit the railings, flush with the post. You would just cut two horizontal lines on the post the width of the railing and then use a chizel to get the piece out. You can always sand later.

As for levelness, thats tricky when you are digging holes, but you can get it as close as possible and then just cut the tops off to match. Then clean up the tops of the posts later for prettyness.

[wooohooo]

Thanks a lot everyone for the detailed instructions!! I'm going to be having this thread open when I'm doing it. Really appreciate it. I'm going to start tomorrow so wish me luck!!

Thanks again!

[Jesse834]

I could be an arse and say hire a certain group of people but I won't go there.

[Northendzone]

seeing as how you are building tomorrow, perhaps it is too late (or perhaps i am repeating stuff from above), but here are a couple of my thoughts after building two fences:

- i'd consider going with the 6 x 6 posts, and the 2 x 6's for support - makes the fence a lot mor sturdy
- i'd also go with 16 foot top caps, one again makes everything more sturdy
- take you time and mix the cemet in a wheelbarrow, it makes it more consistent, after your have poured the cemet in the hole, use a long thin stick (an old hockey stick is perfect) to "churn" the cemet (think an action like a butter churn) - get the air pockets out and ensure the cement settles a bit
- If you have the time, i'd paint the wood first before assembling the fence
- ensure you have the proper screws for PT/ACQ wood

[wooohooo]

Sorry by support what do you mean? Where do I place them?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by sa226

People are mentioning cement and gravel, depending on the soil you would be surprised how well good ol' mother earth holds a post. All you would need is a spade, level and a tamper to put in the posts. If you cement them in, it makes it that much harder if you ever want to move the fence or replace the posts or whatever.

What he said. There's really no need to cement them in. The back fence in our place is only held in with soil and it's straight as an arrow (built in 02).

[zamler]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Sorry by support what do you mean? Where do I place them?

He means the horizontal 2x4s or 2x6s that traditionally are put near the top and bottom between the posts.

Originally Posted by Shazam

What he said. There's really no need to cement them in. The back fence in our place is only held in with soil and it's straight as an arrow (built in 02).

It really depends on where you live. Calgary has good soil for posts, black, clay, and some stone, a good mix. If you live in an area that is mostly sand, it won't hold a post properly at all.

BTW, cement is a component of concrete.


edit - this would be considered a traditional fence. This one uses 3 supports/spans but this is the basic design you see a lot. Easy to build, but they do sag over time. a 2x6 helps a lot here.

[wooohooo]

Thanks for the pics, but what kind of wood is being used here if not 2x6's?