Naturopath

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Well like I said, regular doctors don't have time for their patients.

I'm going to a Naturopathic Doctor for a consult, they know alot more about my body than I can learn on the net.

My doctor also takes a lot of time to talk about just about everything with me. You need to establish a good relationship with him/her for that reason.

As for the Naturopathic Doctor knowing more than I can learn or have learned on the net, I doubt that.

The human body is as simple as it is complex.

Problem is that a lot of people look to Naturopath doctors to solve issues that a healthy diet and lots of exercise would solve.

[JimmytheT]

Originally Posted by photon

Of course it wasn't a fluke, you said that they had allergy tests done and there was allergies, nothing unusual there. As to why the other ones didn't have the allergy tests done, I'm not them so I can't say.



Or it could be that with naturopaths allergies are nails and their favorite tool is a hammer. Or it could be the people posting in this thread report positive experiences while those that didn't have one don't post (remembering the hits and forgetting the misses is a well known cognitive bias).

If you want to identify a trend, you need data, not self selecting anecdotes.

I'm not saying there isn't a trend, but to identify it you have to gather the data properly and study it properly and analyze it properly, which is something alternative peddlers typically don't do or even avoid.



Based on a few anecdotes? That's like saying the Flames will go undefeated after they win 2 games.



As long as it's with the knowledge and involvement of a qualified medical professional the risk is probably low (so that the person doesn't die from ineffectual "treatments" for actual serious problems).

Because without a doctor's involvement there is harm.. much of what a naturopath thinks is unscientific, based on nothing more than tradition. Naturopaths have fought proven things like vaccines based on unscientific ideas. They don't self-regulate in the way the medical industry does.

So the harm is people viewing an ND as as equivalent to or an alternative to an actual medical practitioner, or ND's portraying themselves as that. If you walk into an ND are they going to ask you "have you seen your doctor"?

EDIT: http://www.skepticnorth.com/2009/11/...ths-prescribe/

EDIT2: Here's a response to the article, and the comments section is very interesting to read: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b....aspx#comments

Best analogy in connecting an off-topic subject on this forum with the them of this site. Well done.

Oh and the rest of your post is very goo too.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Pinner

I suspect from my research and talking to a dietitian that my liver/adrenal glands may not be working well.

I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow, he will have my latest blood work results and I'll see what he says.

The next day I will take the blood work results to the Naturopathic doctor and get a thorough exam etc. ? And see what she says.

I am taking control of my health using what I can, to improve my health.

My thinking is, improving liver function might be more in the Naturopaths expertise.

Doctors treat symptoms, usually with drugs, Naturopathic doctors treat the person, usually with lifestyle and dietary changes.

Anyone ever tell you have have an overactive thyroid?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Just to add to this, a friend of mine has had skin problems for 5-6 years. Every single dermatologist that she saw basically recited from their textbooks and told her that she had severe eczema and prescribed increasing levels of cortizone to treat it. Obviously it didn't go away after probably 10 or 15 different dermatologists (including an ER visit), and frankly, the overuse of cortizone permanently damaged a lot of the skin.

Finally, on a suggestion from a friend, they went to see a naturopath, who suggested an allergy test and found significant allergies to a wide variety of foods and metals. Afterwards, the naturopath found out that there were several vital nutrients missing from the diet. A combination of not eating foods that she was allergic to as well as eating the right supplements (not purchased from the naturopath, but just vitamins from a pharmacy), and her skin has recovered significantly.

Now, is it fluke that the one naturopath was able to make the correct diagnosis and solve the problem, and that 15 trained and licensed dermatologists could not? Possibly. It hasn't sold me completely, but I was impressed that they were able to get it right the first time, fluke or no fluke.

Thats interesting.

Eczema is more often than not caused by either something you eat or the environment you're in, including stuff in the air.

In other words allergies.

Next time hire me first.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by troutman

You really are just supporting my point.

I'm not talking about individual doctors. Science, in the long run, will make corrections. It may be painfully slow to adapt sometimes, but it will progress.

In the long run sure. What kind of long run are we talking about though?

Based on the history of psychiatry I don't see much progress. The history of psychiatry is for the most part a bumbling series of different kinds of tortures that made unruly patients more docile. Some of the drug cocktails used this century are nothing more but the same thing and you can see that from the "side effects". If the patients are manageable, who cares if you've permanently damaged them worse than the original psychosis?

In fact an argument can be made that the peak of mental health care in some respects was the French model in the 1800's.

Lobotomoy was a method devised this century and it became widely popular because it made unruly patients docile. Of course the patients also lost a lot of higher level brain functioning but who cares right?

That we are searching for more drugs whose long term effects we cannot measure accurately until years after they are approved by the FDA to replace those whose "side effects" are too detrimental to be continued to use suggests little progress has been made. That electro-shock therapy has seen a resurgence suggests regress may have been made.

Psychiatry is a science that is clearly still in the dark ages. The course I took on psychiatry last summer to finish off my undergrad scared the heck out of me. And it certainly hits home as my half-brother is alcoholic, was diagnosed with bi-polar a decade ago and has been on anti-psychotics ever since. He now lives on the streets bouncing in and out of hospitals. He had a good spell off the drugs for a time but it sure seems to me that he's gotten progressively worse over the last decade. In fact a recent doctor suggested he never had bi-polar and was merely alcoholic with an alcohol allergy. If thats the case then the lithium he's been taking for a decade has probably only made him worse. The electroshock therapy probably didn't help. He's pretty much a lost cause right now, but has 3 kids who have so far turned out alright despite him.

In the case of psychiatry, I think the bio-medical model hurts people. If someone needs self-esteem, or life coping skills, they aren't going to get them from a pill. I am not dismissing those who have been helped by psychiatry because clearly some have. But if you acknowledge those people you must also acknowledge those who have been permanently damaged or scarred for life by psychiatric "treatment."

[Azure]

I should setup a CP store. Every single 'vitamin' that a Naturopath Doctor gives you for $80/bottle, I can get you for 1/2 price.

For example, melatonin. Its a natural sleep aid that you can pick up at Costco for half the price that your Naturopath doctor will sell it for. Of course, they tout it as an amazing cure.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Azure

For example, melatonin. Its a natural sleep aid that you can pick up at Costco for half the price that your Naturopath doctor will sell it for. Of course, they tout it as an amazing cure.

An amazing cure for....jet lag?

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Azure

I should setup a CP store. Every single 'vitamin' that a Naturopath Doctor gives you for $80/bottle, I can get you for 1/2 price.

For example, melatonin. Its a natural sleep aid that you can pick up at Costco for half the price that your Naturopath doctor will sell it for. Of course, they tout it as an amazing cure.

Just take the advice but don't buy it from the ND, go buy it from Costco. They can't force you to buy from them. Similar to the vet medicines one poster mentioned in the pet euthanasia thread.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Azure

Anyone ever tell you have have an overactive thyroid?

I think you mean under-active, it's been tested often the last couple of years, only once the results were below "normal".

One thing though, I don't know where it was (should be) before it became suspect. ?

[Pinner]

Psychiatry is a science, treating people with mind altering drugs and literally altering their minds, with scalpels and electricity.

Naturopathy is quackery, treating people with lifestyle, and dietary changes. hmm

[peter12]

I'm pretty skeptical of psychiatry myself without passing over into Tom Cruise crazy. Some people need the drugs pretty badly, others would be better off with good family environments, cognitive therapy, and important changes to their lifestyle.

I went into a counselor awhile ago for stress reasons, they immediately prescribed me Atavin and a few anti-depressants to "try out." That was it. No follow up, no warning about the long-term side affects of Atavin, just a prescription and a kick out the door.

[Tiger]

Homeopathy is not bunk technically... it works by the placebo effect, which can help peripheral diseases. It is just not that effective.

Regards to the comments of all alternative medicine 'doctors' are quacks, I just have to say I've met MD's that are not right in the head with there ideas, same goes with Ph.D's I've met in most sciences. So in every industry there are quacks and people that are good at their job.

That being said if you go to a chiropractor for curing diseases or to do energy testing to find if you are allergic to something then you deserve to be taken by that quack. If you go to the chiropractor for back pain (or similar problems) then they can do wonders.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Tiger

Homeopathy is not bunk technically... it works by the placebo effect, which can help peripheral diseases. It is just not that effective.

The placebo effect is highly over-rated; it's mostly just observer bias or people seeking medical aid when they're feeling at their worst and naturally getting better on their own. Homeopathy is pretty much as bunk as it gets.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm pretty skeptical of psychiatry myself without passing over into Tom Cruise crazy. Some people need the drugs pretty badly, others would be better off with good family environments, cognitive therapy, and important changes to their lifestyle.

I went into a counselor awhile ago for stress reasons, they immediately prescribed me Atavin and a few anti-depressants to "try out." That was it. No follow up, no warning about the long-term side affects of Atavin, just a prescription and a kick out the door.

Try a psychologist next time.

[Tiger]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

The placebo effect is highly over-rated; it's mostly just observer bias or people seeking medical aid when they're feeling at their worst and naturally getting better on their own. Homeopathy is pretty much as bunk as it gets.

If it is observer bias how does it work in double blind studies (the placebo effect, not homeopathics)? and yes the placebo effect is people getting better on their own. That is pretty much the definition of the placebo effect. But the mind is powerful, and homeopathy can put people's minds in the right state. Whether it is the mind that helps heal, or the fact that people think they feel better and actually get off their butt and maybe actually accidentally exercise or something along those lines and they get better.

[Tiger]

I've also been told the Homeopathy is more effective in children (maybe more impressionable). But in all the meta-studies I seen on average there is no benefit for homeopathics, but in studies I've seen with children they have seen some results (but much more testing is needed)

[photon]

Originally Posted by peter12

I went into a counselor awhile ago for stress reasons, they immediately prescribed me Atavin and a few anti-depressants to "try out." That was it. No follow up, no warning about the long-term side affects of Atavin, just a prescription and a kick out the door.

Yeah, don't want to get into details but I was meeting with a psychologist and both her and my family doctor had a bunch of stuff they wanted me to do before they even considered drugs.. (the stuff worked, never had the drugs). Homework from a psychologist lol.

But I do think that we are still at a pretty primitive stage of mental health, a long way to go, and just prescribing a drug should not be the only answer.

But I am personally involved with a case where drugs are absolutely necessary, making the difference between functional and able to cope with life and not, and it took some doing to find the right balance so the drug helped but didn't interfere

Originally Posted by Tiger

Homeopathy is not bunk technically...

It is completely bunk.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

An amazing cure for....jet lag?

Well, I don't know if it helps with that, but I know its been recommended to some people I know by a Naturopath doctor as a cure for sleep problems.

Of course, they said you had to buy from them.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Pinner

I think you mean under-active, it's been tested often the last couple of years, only once the results were below "normal".

One thing though, I don't know where it was (should be) before it became suspect. ?

Maybe I have you mixed up with someone else on CP.

Does your problem revolve around inability to gain weight, or inability to eat food and NOT gain weight?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Tiger

If you go to the chiropractor for back pain (or similar problems) then they can do wonders.

I know they can. But the fact is that people who have back pain in today's society either have a overhang in the front(belly) causing constant stress on the back, or they have tight/inflexible muscles from lack of mobility often caused by a desk job. Or any stationary job.

Spend a couple months stretching out your hip flexor, quads, hamstrings and there is a good chance your back pain will go away.

Assuming of course that you don't have a belly, or a herniated disk.

The chiropractor can help, but people look to him to fix a problem that is caused by an unhealthy lifestyle.