StatsCan Head Quits Over Census Dispute

[Methanolic]

Don't the Income tax forms we fill out every year eliminate the need for the census? ....They know who I am, my spouse, my dependants (kids) ...they just don't have an excuse for asking how many bathrooms I have!

[Devils'Advocate]

STC does have access to the income tax forms, but since not everyone fills out the income tax forms, we can't use that as a basis for a census. We do use them where applicable to reduce respondent burden for other surveys.

(You don't have to fill out the income tax form if the government owes you money, or you make so little that you are under the personal exemption. BTW - I just checked our own data and it has concluded that 75% of Canadians have tax returns.)

The bathroom thing gets thrown around, and I don't personally know what the purpose of that question is, but the long form questions on transportation are used by municipal governments to decide on changing transit routes, road requirements, and city planning. The data on the long form is used by school boards to predict enrollment and thus staffing needs. Long form data is used to focus social services such as increasing services for disabled people where the need is high. I don't see the need to throw the baby out with the bathroom question.

[MarchHare]

I don't get why opponents think listing the number of bathrooms in their homes is a huge invasion of their privacy. Chances are that info was already publicly available if your property was ever listed on MLS. Stating the number of bedrooms and bathrooms in a home is part of EVERY real estate listing. What are people so afraid of? How is the big bad government going to use this info to invade your privacy?

I think the real issue here (if there even is an issue and this isn't something invented by the CPC) is laziness from people who don't want to spend the time to complete the census. Privacy concerns are a red herring, since StatsCan has a very strict privacy policiy.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I don't get why opponents think listing the number of bathrooms in their homes is a huge invasion of their privacy. Chances are that info was already publicly available if your property was ever listed on MLS. Stating the number of bedrooms and bathrooms in a home is part of EVERY real estate listing. What are people so afraid of? How is the big bad government going to use this info to invade your privacy?

I think the real issue here (if there even is an issue and this isn't something invented by the CPC) is laziness from people who don't want to spend the time to complete the census. Privacy concerns are a red herring, since StatsCan has a very strict privacy policiy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1649356/

Nothing to do with lazyness and everything to do with undermining collection of statistics. As long as there are accurate statistics showing that there are innate inequalities in society, there's going to be academics and politicians trying to propose government programs and solutions to remedy inequalities.

It's rather funny how the Liberals, NDPers, academics, civic leaders et al defend the census in it's prior form (no pun intended) as claiming that it would disrupt the data that they need for planning programs etc. The conservative base would use the same arguement against it in that they find fault in government using any data on the long form census for anything. Conservative idiology views these attempts as unnecessary 'social engineering.' They do not want more social programs but less social programs. Without data to show that there is a percieved problem, no one will propose a program!

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I think the real issue here (if there even is an issue and this isn't something invented by the CPC) is laziness from people who don't want to spend the time to complete the census. Privacy concerns are a red herring, since StatsCan has a very strict privacy policiy.

I just PMed Azure on that topic. Most Canadian have no idea the lengths Statistics Canada goes through to protect the privacy of the data we are given. That is foremost out of a duty and respect to the respondents, but also out of self-preservation. If there were to be a leak of private information, people would have legitimate reasons to be fearful of responding and that would result in undersampled data as well. Our ability to provide a quality product depends on the trust of the public.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1649356/ Without data to show that there is a percieved problem, no one will propose a program!

While I agree with much of what is stated here, I don't think most conservatives (either big or small C) are against services to the handicapped, public transportation and education.

And what would be missed entirely is that in 1986 when the government considered canceling the census as a cost saving measure it was the PRIVATE SECTOR that stood up and demanded that there be a census. The data collected via the census is used by businesses across the country to make smarter decisions and make more profitable decisions. Are the Conservatives against that as well?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I just PMed Azure on that topic. Most Canadian have no idea the lengths Statistics Canada goes through to protect the privacy of the data we are given. That is foremost out of a duty and respect to the respondents, but also out of self-preservation. If there were to be a leak of private information, people would have legitimate reasons to be fearful of responding and that would result in undersampled data as well. Our ability to provide a quality product depends on the trust of the public.

Yeah, thanks for that.

Pretty interesting.

I realize the importance of the census, but as every single citizen should be, I am worried about my private information being accessed for whatever reason, by whatever person, making me the target of identity theft.

Do I trust the government? Absolutely not.

But, I will say that after reading the PM I was sent there are specific procedures in place to make sure none of my personal information is stolen. That being said, I will continue not trusting the government. That way they'll do a good job of keeping everything private like it should be.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

And what would be missed entirely is that in 1986 when the government considered canceling the census as a cost saving measure it was the PRIVATE SECTOR that stood up and demanded that there be a census. The data collected via the census is used by businesses across the country to make smarter decisions and make smarter more profitable decisions. Are the Conservatives against that as well?

It could be that they are against government funding going to the numbers used by businesses, instead of the businesses spending the money and doing it themselves.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The conservative base would use the same arguement against it in that they find fault in government using any data on the long form census for anything. Conservative idiology views these attempts as unnecessary 'social engineering.' They do not want more social programs but less social programs. Without data to show that there is a percieved problem, no one will propose a program!

Huh...?

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.c...rticle/1120349

Alarm about the government's decision to kill off the long-form census has spilled over to the business community.

...

Both the Canadian and Toronto associations of business economists are drafting letters to Industry Minister Tony Clement to protest cabinet's decision to replace the mandatory, long census form with a voluntary survey next year.

"As a practising economist, the census is the single most important piece of information we get," said Craig Alexander, chief economist at Toronto-Dominion Bank and president of CABE.

...

The business economists join the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and social scientists in protesting the decision, saying the long census form is the best way researchers have of gathering detailed social and economic information about local communities.

...

Clement has said the decision was made based on the fact that many Canadians had complained of the coercive and intrusive nature of the census. But he said he had not seen any polling on the issue and acknowledged he did no consultations.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/...-faith016.html

Both the Canadian Jewish Congress and the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada have written to the Conservative government to voice their concerns.

[calumniate]

If people are concerned about privacy they should be concerned about conservative governments. Bush did a manual override of many FOIP (privacy) laws during his tenure.

Devil's Advocate is right that academics, businesses and public entities rely on this information. Stats Can ensures that the data is aggregated and cannot be linked to one single individual. Meanwhile the conservatives are busy tapping phone lines and monitoring activity for security purposes without going through proper channels.

Yeah, I said it!

[mikey_the_redneck]

I won't be filling mine out either way.

[stampsx2]

StatsCan invasion of privacy? That's funny.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by calumniate

If people are concerned about privacy they should be concerned about conservative governments. Bush did a manual override of many FOIP (privacy) laws during his tenure.

Devil's Advocate is right that academics, businesses and public entities rely on this information. Stats Can ensures that the data is aggregated and cannot be linked to one single individual. Meanwhile the conservatives are busy tapping phone lines and monitoring activity for security purposes without going through proper channels.

Yeah, I said it!

Bush, nor the laws he changed or screwed up have nothing to do with Canada.

Nor are conservatives in the US like conservatives in Canada.

And its a legitimate concern to be concerned about my private information. Being concerned is why Stats Canada makes sure the information is protected.

[peter12]

I just don't thinkg government bureaucrats have the "right" to my personal information. Regardless of the good that comes out of it, you are not entitled to "me."

(Flash of libertarianism subsiding...)