2010 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 59 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GirlySports · 07-14-2010, 04:53 PM

I think it's a great move. Trade Gonzalez while he's absolutely hot to get a SS they has the potential to be just as good as Gonzalez year after year.

Call me a skeptic, but I'd bet on Gonzalez keeping up that < .300 OBP before I'd bet on him showing the same power in the 2nd half.

I wouldn't call his year "great" by any means - his HR total is pretty much all he's got (which I can't discount) but I'm seriously doubting he approaches 35 HR this year. .296 OBP. ouch.

bluejays · 07-14-2010, 05:12 PM

I really really like this move as well. There's no way they could have got Escobar if he did not struggle so badly this year. Really solid move like others have said, for buying low and selling high. How can a move like this go wrong really? Gonzalez will probably hold his numbers for a couple seasons, but if anything, he's peaked. Solid solid moves AA keeps doing, and I'm glad he took the risk and just did it without lollygagging for attention like JP did. He also did it way in advance of the deadline which almost signals to Jays fans (deservedly) that they're rebuilding and looking to get good future assets rather than adding for a playoff push. I hope Escobar's attitude lightens up, as that has slightly soured when he's struggled.

Caged Great · 07-14-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

No kidding. A perfect example of someone either speaking with absolutely no knowledge base or whose opinion is so biased, they can't see straight.

Or, just not as informed about players on one specific team. I hate the braves, so I don't go watching their games.

I was busy this morning, so when I looked at the stats that were in the report, a .234 avg was the only thing that they had along with home run totals, which are basically useless in determining talent, but I figured that with him being 27, and hitting that "great" that he was a crappy player. My ignorance of the Braves players was the problem.

I think this trade was a steal now that I've had the time to actually look at the important stats. Hopefully he fits in and returns to career averages.

Kelekin · 07-14-2010, 05:42 PM

This was a great move, taking two players that fell out of favour with an organization. A-Gon is a solid defensive shortstop but his hitting is going to fall off the map. I am okay with giving up Pastornicky too, since they don't believe he has the tools to be a future shortstop. The only disappointing thing is giving up Collins. A lot of top of Blue Jays prospect writers assumed there was a good shot for him to be our closer of the future. The guy has had a sick minor league career and our bullpen looks to be in trouble for a couple years.

Either way, good deal. Worst-case scenario, you can flip Escobar when he's hot if Hechevarria becomes ready or his arbitration salaries become too high. If he returns to form he's a hot commodity.

CaramonLS · 07-14-2010, 05:51 PM

Very impressed with this trade. Exactly what the Jays needed.

Just for reference, among qualified leaders last season, Escobar was ranked 5th in OPS for all qualified (min 500 PAs) MLB SSs, behind Bartlet, Jeter, Tulo and Hanley Ramirez.

That isn't bad company to be in. He has a pretty good on base % as well, which is very rare for a short stop. Especially one who fields the position so well.

SportsJunky · 07-14-2010, 07:39 PM

I like this move...a lot. Escobar is an exciting defensive player who showed real pop in his bat last year. I have watched him a little this year and was amazed at how big he is 6-2 200lbs.

Matty81 · 07-14-2010, 07:41 PM

Wow, I'm actually shocked Escobar got moved for so little, doesn't seem like long ago he was almost untouchable. I like the move, SS looks good now and in the future, you'd imagine Escobar would make a great tutor for Hetch.

Machiavelli · 07-16-2010, 06:06 PM

It is the lowly Orioles, but Romero is on today.

Ziggy Lidstrom · 07-17-2010, 05:37 AM

AA is the executive of the year. Morrow and Escobar?
A potential ace and a potential 5 tool shortstop?
for spare parts and a career year for a guy with a terrible obp? aaaaahhahaahaha...

wow. those 3 star level defensive plays were amazing. He is better than gonzalez there and that is saying a lot. His range, reads and hands are a bit better than gonzo. A lot of those plays would have ate him up. His arm is a cannon which is also better than AGon. I like his approach at the plate too: he's patient and he sees pitches well. I think the problem with his swing was mental and mechanically it looks like he has good hand speed within a compact swing. That bunt was nice. Then his next Ab was solid coming back from 0-2 on bergesen to work a walk. His walk to SO rate is amazing this year despite his average: 38-31. That is going to go a long way with this team, IMO. He was on base 3 times tonight. I also think that Clarence and Dwayne will love working with a SS like this. He had 17 longballs last year and with this team could improve on those numbers. He was, like many have asserted, unavailable nearly for any deal last year.

JP who? AA, Wow, colour me impressed! This shrewdness by buying low and selling high is paying off for the jays.

as a tangent, doesn't anyone find it funny that there is one division with 3 50 win teams and a 45 win team. The jays will be at fifty before any other 4th place team in history. 2012 for this team looks auspicious, if we last that long of course...

flambers · 07-17-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

AA is the executive of the year. Morrow and Escobar?
A potential ace and a potential 5 tool shortstop?
for spare parts and a career year for a guy with a terrible obp? aaaaahhahaahaha...

wow. those 3 star level defensive plays were amazing. He is better than gonzalez there and that is saying a lot. His range, reads and hands are a bit better than gonzo. A lot of those plays would have ate him up. His arm is a cannon which is also better than AGon. I like his approach at the plate too: he's patient and he sees pitches well. I think the problem with his swing was mental and mechanically it looks like he has good hand speed within a compact swing. That bunt was nice. Then his next Ab was solid coming back from 0-2 on bergesen to work a walk. His walk to SO rate is amazing this year despite his average: 38-31. That is going to go a long way with this team, IMO. He was on base 3 times tonight. I also think that Clarence and Dwayne will love working with a SS like this. He had 17 longballs last year and with this team could improve on those numbers. He was, like many have asserted, unavailable nearly for any deal last year.

JP who? AA, Wow, colour me impressed! This shrewdness by buying low and selling high is paying off for the jays.

as a tangent, doesn't anyone find it funny that there is one division with 3 50 win teams and a 45 win team. The jays will be at fifty before any other 4th place team in history. 2012 for this team looks auspicious, if we last that long of course...

The other move I really like is Lewis for cash considerations. Lewis has played really well and added speed to the line up not to mention he can hit leadoff

moon · 07-17-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

as a tangent, doesn't anyone find it funny that there is one division with 3 50 win teams and a 45 win team. The jays will be at fifty before any other 4th place team in history.

The Dodgers, Giants and Rockies already have 49 wins each so they are likely to get to 50 first and be in 4th place in their division.

flames_1987 · 07-18-2010, 10:14 AM

Agreed on AA having me pretty giddy about the future of this team. Patience is without a doubt a virtue but we still have some moveable parts left so hopefully AA can keep working his magic.

Machiavelli · 07-18-2010, 10:28 AM

Gregg seems just a bit unstable. That was his second mini-breakdown, no? Dude has to learn how to deal with shoddy umpiring.

Matty81 · 07-18-2010, 11:36 AM

Ya the snap at Cito was stupid too. You walk the bases loaded and then are angry your get pulled? Own your performance don't blame somebody else.

ben voyonsdonc · 07-18-2010, 12:10 PM

Sweet swing by Escobar! That was the first time I had a chance to see him at bat.

flames_1987 · 07-18-2010, 12:11 PM

Not a bad way to start a game. Escobar has done nothing but impress me since he came over

flames_1987 · 07-18-2010, 01:15 PM

Escobar for MVP! 5 RBI's today

JiriHrdina · 07-18-2010, 01:24 PM

Yeah impressive kid so far - obviously he won't keep up this pace but this has potential to be an excellent long-term deal so far.

Sylvanfan · 07-18-2010, 07:07 PM

Well I hope Gonzalez does well for the Braves, he really did play well for the Jays and as a result has helped land them what could be a very promising asset in Escobar.

With this being Bobby Cox's last year and the Braves leading their Division by 5 games, there probably was a pretty good oppurtunity to pry a player from them who may not have been available in another season. The Braves likely want to win the Division this year and do more so they're willing to give up a guy like Escobar who's struggling now for a guy they hope will be an immediate upgrade.

For the Jays it potentially gives them a guy who could become the best shortstop in the Division. When you compete against teams like the Red Sox and Yankees, you need to have solid players at every position as well as a great staff. With Jeter getting on in age, and the Red Sox going with Scutaro, a guy like Escobar could be an edge at a very important spot on the diamond for the Jays if he can regain form. At worst it definitely gets the Jays a lot closer to their competition at that position.

flames_1987 · 07-18-2010, 08:27 PM

Sounds like the talk is of keeping Bautista around and working on a contract extension instead of trading him in the next two weeks. Not sure what I think of this