Consequences of Creatine Supplementation

[Jake]

I'm doing my end year Bio 231 lab presentation on this and have found alot of evidence of its harmful effects on the body. Last time a thread similar to this was in use I was called a "fear mongerer" by one poster and another said I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, in reality it was the other way around.

Here are some references from the handy U of C library, I will give everything credit so cp doesn't run into problems. U of C students can look up the abstract on the U of C library site and take out the journals on a two week loan. The full electronic text was not available online for either of my examples.

We report the case of a 30-year-old Caucasian man who came to the emergency department in atrial fibrillation with rapid ventricular response. His medical history was unremarkable, except for minor fractures of the fingers and foot. Thyroid-stimulating hormone, magnesium, and potassium levels were within normal limits, urine drug screen was negative, and alcohol use was denied. However, when the patient was questioned about use of herbal products and supplements, the use of creatine monohydrate was revealed.

Previous anecdotal reports have linked creatine to the development of arrhythmia. Clinicians must be diligent when interviewing patients about their drug therapy histories and include questions about their use of herbal products and dietary supplements.

Kammer and Ryan. 2005. Lone atrial fibrillation associated with creatine monohydrate supplementation. Pharmacotherapy. 25(5). 762-764.

I just found this interesting... no real significance to the thread:

The scientific data available on highly trained athletes indicates that this population does not benefit from creatine supplementation.

The cancer risk related to abuse of this substance is too great to be taken lightly to have an unfair ridiculously low advantage of others in sports competition.

Rossi, Gambelunghe, Lepri, Micheletti, Sommavilla, Parisse and Rufini. 1998. Creatine supplement and sport. Medicina-dello-Sport-(Turin). 51(4). 349-353.

A few positives to be fair, but in my opinion the risks far outweight these. Creatine can be used medicinally on brain damaged individuals and to protect against brain injury. It helps SOME people (others are not significantly impacted) build muscle faster when they begin working out, after that it helps little.

I realize there have been no long term studies done but in many cases a long term study wasn't needed to display the consquences of creatine supplementation.

Am i missing something? I just dont understand where the link actually is... can you show me?
You picked a few studies or anecdotle references that show no connection to creatine and negative side effects. Just that some guy gets sick and tells a doctor that they took creatine.
I once had a sore arm and told a doctor I ate a shoe horn... not sure if anyone ever published anything linking shoe horns to arm soreness.... and i was 10.

[Jake]

Am i missing something? I just dont understand where the link actually is... can you show me?

Did you read the entire post? I said U of C students can access the journals if they want. I also said these journals were not available online.

What I posted are a hell of alot more reliable than most links.

You didn't even read the article, so don't comment.

There are few things I hate more than people who pretend to know something about an issue by googling it.

Creatine has been long suspected to have an affect on the heart, hence why the case of lone atrial fibrillation is disturbing. Some believe that creatine enlarges the heart and athletic individuals already tend to have large hearts. Because of this an even greater enlargement may lead to heart damage.

[Canada 02]

as a doctor who does medical research, I have read many good studies on the risks associated with creatine monohydrate supplementation. However, the evidence that you cite is not the best or most compelling.
1. "case of a 30-year-old Caucasian man" - a one person study is useless in research circles
2. "Previous anecdotal reports" - opinion not evidence
3. "scientific data available on highly trained athletes " - a very skewed sample, hardly indicative of the norm
4. "cancer risk related to abuse of this substance" - there are medical risks if you abuse almost any substance - what happens if it is consumed with controlled doses?

I would suggest you find better studies - there are many!

[AC]

For every study you find that says there may be a possible risk of using Creatine, there will be 3 that say there isn't any.

[Clarkey]

Jake that evidence was absolutely compelling, thank you.

Originally posted by Jake@Oct 8 2005, 05:48 PM

Did you read the entire post? I said U of C students can access the journals if they want. I also said these journals were not available online.

What I posted are a hell of alot more reliable than most links.

You didn't even read the article, so don't comment.

There are few things I hate more than people who pretend to know something about an issue by googling it.

Creatine has been long suspected to have an affect on the heart, hence why the case of lone atrial fibrillation is disturbing. Some believe that creatine enlarges the heart and athletic individuals already tend to have large hearts. Because of this an even greater enlargement may lead to heart damage.

Hey Mr. Sensative university student...
Read my post again, the word 'link' in my orginal post was not a reference to the interent. I used it in the post to ask you what the direct evidence of causation is.
Considering you posted yer ramblings on a hockey message board and considering most people arent going to run up to the university to read the articles, did you really expect people not to comment?

I think the doctors comments above are what I was gettin at.

If theres one thing I hate more, is people who pretend to know something based on reading some study to support their position.

Oh yeah theres another thing I really hate. People what pretend to know something and post negative comments about it when they dont have any first hand experience.

[Jake]

Oh yeah theres another thing I really hate. People what pretend to know something and post negative comments about it when they dont have any first hand experience.

And what first hand experience do you have?

I've taken it before and it did not go well. I only took it for about 1 month before I stopped. I didn't say what I posted was a study, I couldn't find the abstracts for several journals I have at home and I am definatly not typing them out.

Canada 02, I sent you a PM I'd appreciate some guidence on this! The project is worth something like 10% of my overall (10/35% on lab section).

I also havn't been able to find a long term study on steriod use. Are there any? Or did we just learn about the consequences based on idiotic people who took them when nobody new much about them.

[Jake]

Originally posted by Clarkey@Oct 8 2005, 02:21 PM
Jake that evidence was absolutely compelling, thank you.

Look up the article. If you can find it on the internet let me know.

Do you honestly think they would publish this in a journal with just one case?

[Jake]

Originally posted by AnthonyCook@Oct 8 2005, 11:54 AM
For every study you find that says there may be a possible risk of using Creatine, there will be 3 that say there isn't any.

Find me three credible studies that say that. I havn't read one that says "there are no consequences to creatine supplementation".

[badnarik]

ive used creatine in the past and had very good results with no side effects. i would recommend it to anyone who does any sort of heavy weightlifting and has hit a plateau.

i wouldnt call my use long term or abusive, but i have used it on several occasions over the past 8 years.

[AC]

It's safety and effectiveness has been supported in numerous peer-reviewed studies and many experts in the field of sports nutrition. How unfortunate it is that unfounded statements regarding creatine's safety by people looking to stir up controversy has caused the spread of misinformation throughout the country and has even led the NCAA to ban the distribution of creatine. Hopefully, in the years to come this wave of misinformation will be replaced by scientific reasoning and allow people to make educated decisions regarding creatine.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne22.htm

[AC]

http://hdlighthouse.org/see/supplements/creatine8.htm

[...]reports in the news media, which have repeatedly emphasised the health risks of creatine supplementation and do not hesitate to draw broad conclusions from individual case reports.

[AC]

http://www.consumerhealthdigest.com/creatinearticle.htm

This fear over the safety of creatine was usually generated from some hysterical news report or poorly researched article.

The fact is, creatine may be the most extensively researched performance-enhancing supplement of all time, with a somewhat astounding safety record.

Bottom line, creatine safety has been extensively researched and is far safer than most over-the-counter (OTC) products, including aspirin.


edit: sorry for the 3 posts in a row.

Originally posted by Jake@Oct 8 2005, 10:21 PM

And what first hand experience do you have?

I've taken it before and it did not go well. I only took it for about 1 month before I stopped. I didn't say what I posted was a study, I couldn't find the abstracts for several journals I have at home and I am definatly not typing them out.

Canada 02, I sent you a PM I'd appreciate some guidence on this! The project is worth something like 10% of my overall (10/35% on lab section).

I also havn't been able to find a long term study on steriod use. Are there any? Or did we just learn about the consequences based on idiotic people who took them when nobody new much about them.

I realize you didnt post the whole study.
My point here is that you have taken a position and set out to prove it. Any good study begins with a question- ie. what effect does creatine monohydrate supplementation have on the human body? Now that is very broad and probably a little general however its a start. Instead, you have started with, creatine supplementation is bad- here's what i have read to prove it.

My first hand experience is alot longer then 1 month. I have experimented with it, taking it with simple and complex carbs, as a mix, by itself, loading and not loading and I have kept very detailed notes on how my workouts have progressed when i did take and when i did not. Now I can make no direct link (not internet) between progress and creatine supplementation. What I do notice is a prolonged 'pump' and muscle 'hardness' . Do I notice an increase in strength or endurance? I would say no, at least there is no way I can say that the reason I am stronger today is because of the creatine.

Have I had any negative side effects? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

If these studies were so cut and dry as u seem to think they r, don't you think creatine would be banned by now?

[Jade]

couple of important points to remember

1. Correlation does not equal causation. Jake, if you want to continue in science, this is an important point to keep in mind. Two things may appear to be linked without being dependent on each other. Even if there is some sort of link between the heart problems of this patient and creatine supplements (which there is no proof of in the section that you copied), that does not mean that the creatine caused them. Heart problems could be caused by a defect that was aggravated by increased excersize, started after taking creatine. The patient would then experience them only after taking creatine, but without the supplement being the cause.

2. Sample size is important. One of the cases you showed was from 1998. That is not considered to be 'recent' literature. If you can't get a greater amount of proof in more recent literature, it's a telling sign that the proof isn't there.

3. To the cancer risk part, to be fair, just about everything has been linked to cancer in one study or another. It's all about how you look at it. Again, correlation does not equal causation.

As an aside, having done just a five minute internet search (and as a tip for future science classes- NCBI pubmed is one of the best sources you will ever find for papers) here is the abstract of an article on longer term effects using creatine as a treatment for disease.

Few adverse effects of long-term creatine supplementation in a placebo-controlled trial.

Although oral creatine supplementation is very popular among athletes, no prospective placebo-controlled studies on the adverse effects of long-term supplementation have yet been conducted. We performed a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of creatine monohydrate in patients with the neurodegenerative disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, because of the neuroprotective effects it was shown to have in animal experiments. The purpose of this paper is to compare the adverse effects, and to describe the effects on indirect markers of renal function of long-term creatine supplementation. 175 subjects (age = 57.7 +/- 11.1 y) were randomly assigned to receive creatine monohydrate 10 g daily or placebo during an average period of 310 days. After one month, two months and from then on every fourth month, adverse effects were scored using dichotomous questionnaires, plasma urea concentrations were measured, and urinary creatine and albumin concentrations were determined. No significant differences in the occurrence at any time of adverse effects due to creatine supplementation were found (23 % nausea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group, 19 % gastro-intestinal discomfort in the creatine group, vs. 18 % in the placebo group, 35 % diarrhoea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group). After two months of treatment, oedematous limbs were seen more often in subjects using creatine, probably due to water retention. Severe diarrhoea (n = 2) and severe nausea (n = 1) caused 3 subjects in the creatine group to stop intake of creatine, after which these adverse effects subsided. Long-term supplementation of creatine did not lead to an increase of plasma urea levels (5.69 +/- 1.47 before treatment vs. 5.26 +/- 1.44 at the end of treatment) or to a higher prevalence of micro-albuminuria (5.4 % before treatment vs. 1.8 % at the end of treatment).

The effects of creatine are not yet totally known, but there is not enough evidence yet to say that creatine supplements are dangerous.