Does Bush talk to God?

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Oct 7 2005, 09:29 AM
Do God's words to Bush trump Jesus' words in the Bible? Just wondering...

Isn't the bible a pretty bloodthirsty book?

The notion of leaders interpreting religious text as an excuse for violence is as old as the hair on gramma's chest.

Cowperson

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 7 2005, 10:46 AM
is as old as the hair on gramma's chest.

ewww.

[Agamemnon]

Isn't the bible a pretty bloodthirsty book?

Yep, that's why I said Jesus' words. He, above all, seems to be the poster-boy for the 'Christian' faith, so I presume whatever he says supercedes Old Testament shinanigans.

I don't think violence can be justified in the name of the Old Testament in the Christian faith, but I'm no theologian.

The notion of leaders interpreting religious text as an excuse for violence is as old as the hair on gramma's chest.

Sure, and if things were the same now as they've been for the past few centuries, then I wouldn't expect things to change. However, the 20th and 21st centuries are distinctly different religiously than all those before, with the birth of widespread secular rationalism and the fact that many, many people grow up without any religious beliefs (unusual historically). I don't think Western-secular nations are as prone to religious-oriented warfare as they may have been 1-2 centuries ago (or wouldn't have thought so, depending on the validity of Bush' statements).

If Martin said we're going into Iraq because God suggests it and the Bible validates it... well... that would be hilarious.

[Ace]

If your asking about a Christian perspective, then yes:

http://www.biblegateway.org/passage/?book_...1&context=verse

It's clearly in line with what the Bible states.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 7 2005, 10:46 AM
Isn't the bible a pretty bloodthirsty book?

The notion of leaders interpreting religious text as an excuse for violence is as old as the hair on gramma's chest.

Cowperson

God told me not to look at grandma's boobies. Actually, I don't need god for that when National Geographic does a pretty good job covering it for me.

Does god hate chest hair? He must hate me and my jungle patch then. God told me this thread is going downhill, but I was supposed to post in it anyway.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Ace@Oct 7 2005, 12:57 PM
If your asking about a Christian perspective, then yes:

http://www.biblegateway.org/passage/?book_...1&context=verse

It's clearly in line with what the Bible states.

Much more than that...heres a few choice lines...

Behold, he was leprous in his forehead ... because the LORD had smitten him.--2 Chr.26:20

Genesis

# "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31

# God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

# Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

# God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

# God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4


#
Exodus

# Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

# God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23

# God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

# God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

# "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

# God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

# The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6

#


Leviticus

# God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9

# "Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6

# Burn the head, fat, and entrails for "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:8-9

# "Kill it and sprinkle blood round about." 1:11, 3:2, 3:8, 3:13

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Cheese@Oct 7 2005, 05:01 PM
Much more than that...heres a few choice lines...

Behold, he was leprous in his forehead ... because the LORD had smitten him.--2 Chr.26:20

Genesis

# "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31

# God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

# Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

# God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

# God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4


#
Exodus

# Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

# God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23

# God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

# God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

# "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

# God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

# The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6

#


Leviticus

# God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9

# "Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6

# Burn the head, fat, and entrails for "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:8-9

# "Kill it and sprinkle blood round about." 1:11, 3:2, 3:8, 3:13

I guess my earlier question stands, if worded slightly differently.

Which is of greater value, Jesus' saying bring peace and love to your neighbour, or the Old Testament condoning violence and sacrifice in the name of God?

Which of these would a 'true Christian' say is the more important, and ultimately, 'right'?

[Tron_fdc]

Originally posted by fotze@Oct 7 2005, 10:56 AM
God told me to quote Chapelle:

You used to live in my balls!

"Remember what the Bible says: He who is without sin, cast the first rock. And I shall smoketh it. "

Tyrone

[Ace]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Oct 7 2005, 10:06 AM
I guess my earlier question stands, if worded slightly differently.

Which is of greater value, Jesus' saying bring peace and love to your neighbour, or the Old Testament condoning violence and sacrifice in the name of God?

Which of these would a 'true Christian' say is the more important, and ultimately, 'right'?

Obeying God is the most important. So the question is to decide what God is telling you to do. Obviously Bush is confident with what he believes God is telling him.

And of course you could interpret the Iraq war in many different ways. Either the US is aggressivly attacking a defenseless nation for selfish reasons, or they are freeing it from years of oppression, bringing peace and stability to those people. The "right" act would depend highly on motive.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Ace@Oct 7 2005, 10:17 AM
Obeying God is the most important. So the question is to decide what God is telling you to do. Obviously Bush is confident with what he believes God is telling him.

And of course you could interpret the Iraq war in many different ways. Either the US is aggressivly attacking a defenseless nation for selfish reasons, or they are freeing it from years of oppression, bringing peace and stability to those people. The "right" act would depend highly on motive.

A leader making decisions based on faith would typically voice the "righteous" choice as a salve to conscience.

Also, for the record, White House spokesmen today are denying Bush ever made the statement. There is only the word of someone that he did.

Cowperson

[FireFly]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Oct 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I guess my earlier question stands, if worded slightly differently.

Which is of greater value, Jesus' saying bring peace and love to your neighbour, or the Old Testament condoning violence and sacrifice in the name of God?

Which of these would a 'true Christian' say is the more important, and ultimately, 'right'?

A Christian would love his neighbour, but a Christian's faith also has roots it cannot ignore. Those roots show that everything points to saving God's chosen ones; the Jews. To do this, the prophecies in the Book of Revelation need to be fulfilled, and these actions are just steps toward that. Ultimately, the goal is the Reign of Christ, so whatever gets us closer to that is 'right'.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally posted by FireFly@Oct 7 2005, 10:49 AM
A Christian would love his neighbour, but a Christian's faith also has roots it cannot ignore. Those roots show that everything points to saving God's chosen ones; the Jews. To do this, the prophecies in the Book of Revelation need to be fulfilled, and these actions are just steps toward that. Ultimately, the goal is the Reign of Christ, so whatever gets us closer to that is 'right'.

Not all Christians believe the same thing. To say that if you are Christian you must believe in the following is ridiculous. In faith, there are, of course, categorizations in order to describe someone from an outside prespective and to keep things organized but if someone describes themself as a Christian but does not adhere to what you said that's there choice and that must be respected, IMO.

As to the topic of the thread, when I pray God does not speak to me. I do it more to clear my mind and get rid of anxiety, guilt etc. This helps me make better choices. If I was Bush I would be repenting rather than asking which country in order to invade. Also he's kind of implying he's on a religious mission which is as history has shown is very very bad.

[Cowperson]

but if someone describes themself as a Christian but does not adhere to what you said that's there choice and that must be respected, IMO.

Didn't you contradict yourself by criticisizing Bush in the second paragraph?

Cowperson

[Frank the Tank]

god talks to Andy Dick too!!

[StoneCole]

Originally posted by Cheese@Oct 7 2005, 05:01 PM
Much more than that...heres a few choice lines...

Behold, he was leprous in his forehead ... because the LORD had smitten him.--2 Chr.26:20

Genesis

# "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31

# God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

# Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

# God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

# God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4


#
Exodus

# Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

# God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23

# God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

# God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

# "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

# God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

# The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6

#


Leviticus

# God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9

# "Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6

# Burn the head, fat, and entrails for "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:8-9

# "Kill it and sprinkle blood round about." 1:11, 3:2, 3:8, 3:13

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

This is a passage about Iginla, you know.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 7 2005, 08:29 AM
Would it bother you if your leader said he based his decisions on the philosophies of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy?

sure, same thing anyhow...fairytale is a fairytale

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by Tron_fdc@Oct 7 2005, 10:10 AM
"Remember what the Bible says: He who is without sin, cast the first rock. And I shall smoketh it. "

Tyrone

lmao

[troutman]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 7 2005, 03:54 PM
Why don't you tell me what the philosophies of the tooth fairy, easter bunny and Santa Claus are and I'll tell you if it would bother me.

Cowperson

The core message seems to be:

BE GOOD AND YOU WILL BE REWARDED (presents/chocolate/money).

Actually, now that I think of it, not a lot different than core religious messages:

BE GOOD AND YOU WILL BE REWARDED (heaven/paradise).

[Tron_fdc]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 7 2005, 02:54 PM
The core message seems to be:

BE GOOD AND YOU WILL BE REWARDED (presents/chocolate/money).

Actually, now that I think of it, not a lot different than core religious messages:

BE GOOD AND YOU WILL BE REWARDED (heaven/paradise).

Be good smiting the infidels and you'll get a bunch of virgins!

Man, if that one was true I'd be in......

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 7 2005, 11:07 AM
but if someone describes themself as a Christian but does not adhere to what you said that's there choice and that must be respected, IMO.

Didn't you contradict yourself by criticisizing Bush in the second paragraph?

Cowperson

No. I said if I was Bush I would consider what I was doing a sin, he obviously has a different view on it. I can criticize Bush from my prespective, but I can't from his prespective or pretend to know what his prespective is.