Why Australia is better than Canada: O'Reilly

[Cowperson]

Well, I was down in the USA last week and heard FOX commentator Bill O'Reilly telling the world why Australia is better than Canada and hence the USA is superior to the whole bloody universe . . . . and how this can all be measured by Olympic medals.

Its because we're socialists here in Canada.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129979,00.html

Doesn't quite explain how Canada was fourth overall in medals in Salt Lake though.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0900268.html

Cowperson

[Daradon]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 4 2004, 02:28 AM
Well, I was down in the USA last week and heard FOX commentator Bill O'Reilly telling the world why Australia is better than Canada and hence the USA is superior to the whole bloody universe . . . . and how this can all be measured by Olympic medals.

Its because we're socialists here in Canada.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129979,00.html

Doesn't quite explain how Canada was fourth overall in medals in Salt Lake though.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0900268.html

Cowperson

This is why I can't believe people take this guy seriously and defend him. What a 'goof'! (CalgaryPuck friendly version of multiple syllabic string of cursing).

Australia is more socialist than Canada anyway. I spent four months there last year. My father has lived down thee for ten years, I have many friends down there. And this is something that they are proud of. The reason their atheletes do so well is because they are identified and trained from an early age, but make no mistake, their publically funded by taxes. Their tax rate is higher than ours.

I wouldn't say EITHER of the coutries are truly socialist, but if you were to put it on a scale we are obviously left of the U.S. The thing is Aus is left of us. I wonder if he has ever been there or is just talking out of his (more multi syllabic string of curse words)

Humble corrospondant my foot. I think this is a shot to Canadians because we didn't support their war and the Aussies did.

[calf]

In other countries, the emphasis on self-reliance has been beaten down by nanny states and entitlement cultures. Just take a look at Australia and Canada, for example. The Aussies have 20 million people to draw from. Canada has 30 million. Yet the Aussies have 35 Olympic medals, Canada just five.

"Talking Points" believes this is reflective of the systems in those countries. Australia is a place where self-reliance is emphasized and competition is celebrated. Canada has become increasingly socialistic, as big government programs ensure everyone is marginally taken care of. I may be wrong here, but I see the entitlement culture as a force against self-discipline and motivation.

Wow. I didn't know about this entitlement culture stuff. Seems to me that the Australian athletes (high level, at least), were given a lot of public funding in the last decade to lead up to the 2000 games, and did very very well.

Canadian athletes get little funding both privately and publicly (right?). Thus, they can't exactly train full time without living below the poverty line - thus can't do as well, right?

Perhaps entitlement in conjunction with self-dicipline and motivation works very well?

[Daradon]

Mr. O'Reilly,

I just finished reading your article titled 'USA Dominating at the Olympics'. I found your comparison of the social structures and values of the U.S.A., Canada, and Australia to be interesting. I especially found the following statements of yours to be of particular interest.

'In other countries, the emphasis on self-reliance has been beaten down by nanny states and entitlement cultures. Just take a look at Australia and Canada, for example. The Aussies have 20 million people to draw from. Canada has 30 million. Yet the Aussies have 35 Olympic medals, Canada just five.

"Talking Points" believes this is reflective of the systems in those countries. Australia is a place where self-reliance is emphasized and competition is celebrated. Canada has become increasingly socialistic, as big government programs ensure everyone is marginally taken care of. I may be wrong here, but I see the entitlement culture as a force against self-discipline and motivation.'


First of all Mr O'Reilly, your comments are out of context. Certainly we as Canadian's don't do well at the summer olympics. However you are forgetting that we placed fourth in the medal count in the winter olmpics in 2002 in Salt Lake (fifth in calculated points), and fourth in the winter olympics in 1998 in Nagano, AHEAD of the U.S. medal count in fact.
2002 - http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0900268.html

1998 - http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0758186.html

We are a winter nation, we do better in winter sports. Australia is a summer nation, they do better in summer sports.

However, you linking medal standings to becoming increasingly socialist is very bizzare.

There is no argument that Canada is left of the U.S. political structure, but in fact, Australia is left of Canada.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, I don't get all bent out of shape about left/right comparisons like self-righteous political pundits do. But your poorly researched article points out your own biases.

My father has lived in Australia for the last ten years, I have been there many times, including four months last year. I have many friends there, I have a personal knowledge of what society is like there. The reason their atheletes do so well is because they are identified and trained from an early age, but make no mistake, their publically funded by taxes. Their tax rate is higher than ours and far higher than yours.

Their social net is by far more apparent than either of our nations. From helping single mothers to paying for athletes to their generous welfare system.

Our athletes in Canada can be funded better, we know this, and it something we are looking at. But to use all of this as an example for individual values and social structures is not only dramatically over simplifying many issues, but adding a spin to it that the right loves to accuse people like Michael Moore as being the only one capable of doing.

To me this seems like nothing more than a poorly veiled jab at Canadians for not supporting your made up war.

Well, add this article to more things the right likes to make up.

Sincerly,
Tyler Fish

Calgary Canada



Why do I let those wing-nuts gt to me?! Man, I'm still shaking! :angry:

[calf]

To me this seems like nothing more than a poorly veiled jab at Canadians for not supporting your made up war.

Well, add this article to more things the right likes to make up.

Awesome letter, just awesome...BUT, I think it's more of a thinly veiled jab at Canada having a more liberal government, not necissarily having anything to do with the made up war. Also, stuff the right likes to make up? Probably more like stuff O'Reilly likes to make up :P

[Vulcan]

In the Sydney Olympics, Australia spent 7 times as much as Canada on their athletes. Another obvious advantage for Australia in summer Olympics is their warmer climate.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by calf@Sep 4 2004, 03:10 AM
To me this seems like nothing more than a poorly veiled jab at Canadians for not supporting your made up war.

Well, add this article to more things the right likes to make up.

Awesome letter, just awesome...BUT, I think it's more of a thinly veiled jab at Canada having a more liberal government, not necissarily having anything to do with the made up war. Also, stuff the right likes to make up? Probably more like stuff O'Reilly likes to make up :P

Well I drew that conclusion because he seemed to be lauding the Aussie system even though in reality they are more socialist than us.

I was talking to my girlfirend about politics a lot down there and we had to come to agreements on a lot of terms. Their 'liberals' are in fact their most right wing party. She was surprised when I was talking about liberals being left of center.

So I don't think it's a jab at being liberal, as even being liberal we are more 'right' than the Aussies.

And you are probably right with you last comment, but damn he made me mad! :angry: And there are other who feel similarly and say just as stupid, uneducated, unresearched things.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Ah, you diminished a great retort with the comment that calf highlighted IMO. Bringing up the war just clouds all of the other issues that you mentioned.

Why do that?

After the war comment it just seems like another anti-war rant.

A shame in my opinion.

[calf]

Originally posted by Daradon@Sep 3 2004, 09:16 PM
I was talking to my girlfirend about politics a lot down there and we had to come to agreements on a lot of terms.# Their 'liberals' are in fact their most right wing party.# She was surprised when I was talking about liberals being left of center.

So I don't think it's a jab at being liberal, as even being liberal we are more 'right' than the Aussies.

Fair enough

Basically just an uneducated, stupid argument made by O'Reilly, with a letter you knocked out of the park....but like DFF said, making the anti-war statements clouds the great letter above it (at least, you know that Bill O'Reilly will pick up on the last 2 sentences to bash the entire thing, should he decide to read it). Oh well.

[Daradon]

I used facts and proved my point. The last bit is speculative yes, and opinionated yes, but it's a logical conclusion. I was trying to figure how he would jump to such an obviously incorrect conclusion.

[Daradon]

I don't disagree with you Calf or DFF, it probably would have been more powerful if I had just stuck to the main issue. Gaaa! It just burned me up! I doubt he would have taken it more seriously without the last two lines anyway. And it's not a conclusion that is a huge stretch. Definitely not as much of a stretch as his anyway. A reactive response, I will admit.

If I try to publish it, I can remove those. It was a first draft.

I'm glad you liked it/thought it was well written otherwise.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Daradon@Sep 4 2004, 03:40 AM
I don't disagree with you Calf or DFF, it probably would have been more powerful if I had just stuck to the main issue. Gaaa! It just burned me up! I doubt he would have taken it more seriously without the last two lines anyway. And it's not a conclusion that is a huge stretch. Definitely not as much of a stretch as his anyway. A reactive response, I will admit.

If I try to publish it, I can remove those. It was a first draft.

I'm glad you liked it/thought it was well written otherwise.

I thought I'd wait before adding that I only became aware of his commentary when a FOXNews anchor highlighted it as "something someone said who probably wished he hadn't in hindsight" as the Olympics were concluding last week.

Effectively, he was being mocked by his own network which I found unusual.

Cowperson

[icarus]

At the time this article was written, Australia had seven times as many medals. By the end they had four times as many. Not surprising, considering (as Vulcan pointed out) they are more of a summer country and that they had established a strong amateur sport infrastructure heading into Sydney which is still bountifully bearing fruit.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by Cowperson+Sep 4 2004, 03:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowperson @ Sep 4 2004, 03:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Daradon@Sep 4 2004, 03:40 AM
I don't disagree with you Calf or DFF, it probably would have been more powerful if I had just stuck to the main issue. Gaaa! It just burned me up! I doubt he would have taken it more seriously without the last two lines anyway. And it's not a conclusion that is a huge stretch. Definitely not as much of a stretch as his anyway. A reactive response, I will admit.

If I try to publish it, I can remove those. It was a first draft.

I'm glad you liked it/thought it was well written otherwise.

I thought I'd wait before adding that I only became aware of his commentary when a FOXNews anchor highlighted it as "something someone said who probably wished he hadn't in hindsight" as the Olympics were concluding last week.

Effectively, he was being mocked by his own network which I found unusual.

Cowperson [/b][/quote]
Lol Mocked by his own station eh? Wow!

I wonder if I will get a response. I sent a letter to Woody Paige a while back, and actually got a response from him. I know O'Reilly is more 'big time' then Woody, but you never know.

Just p*sses me off that millions of people listen to this guy and take his spin as fact.

[Thunderball]

You know he's right... especially about the culture of entitlement... where he loses me is comparing Canada to Australia... not the best.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Sep 4 2004, 12:18 PM
Ah, you diminished a great retort with the comment that calf highlighted IMO. Bringing up the war just clouds all of the other issues that you mentioned.

Why do that?

After the war comment it just seems like another anti-war rant.

A shame in my opinion.

But O'Reilley has been on Canada since we went to the "dark side". He spearheaded the effort to "boycott Canada" like his effort to boycott France, he claimed, was very effective. He quoted a magazine called the Paris Business Review as to how damaged the economy was because of the US's withdrawl, but no such magazine exists and Franco/'Merican trade actually was up slightly.

Daradon pointed out the true source of O'Reilley's displeasure, IMHO and what is clouding HIS judgement when he made the statements.

Oh, and by the way, those totals are incorrect. Becky Scott's bronze was upgraded to a gold and Russia lost a gold and a silver, so we're actually in fourth officially.
Click on the Medal Count Tab, then resend to Bill O'Reilly

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Sep 4 2004, 05:04 PM
You know he's right... especially about the culture of entitlement... where he loses me is comparing Canada to Australia... not the best.

Where this argument hits itself it the head and falls flat in it's face is the strength of the Communist Bloc countries for years and years and years. Lack of Entitlement Culture is not the reason for sporting success. If only it were that simple.

The biggest reason for it seems to be infrastucture investment, which requires money from taxes or businesses or both. Hosting a successful Olympics also seems to help, as the moneys can be used for said investment for years and years (like Calgary's).

[snowdude]

well he does work for the second comedy network....Fox NEWS...I get better news from the Edmonton Sun, Calgary Sun and A-Channel combined :P

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by TheCommodoreAfro+Sep 4 2004, 08:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheCommodoreAfro @ Sep 4 2004, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Sep 4 2004, 12:18 PM
Ah, you diminished a great retort with the comment that calf highlighted IMO.# Bringing up the war just clouds all of the other issues that you mentioned.

Why do that?

After the war comment it just seems like another anti-war rant.

A shame in my opinion.

But O'Reilley has been on Canada since we went to the "dark side". He spearheaded the effort to "boycott Canada" like his effort to boycott France, he claimed, was very effective. He quoted a magazine called the Paris Business Review as to how damaged the economy was because of the US's withdrawl, but no such magazine exists and Franco/'Merican trade actually was up slightly.

Daradon pointed out the true source of O'Reilley's displeasure, IMHO and what is clouding HIS judgement when he made the statements.

Oh, and by the way, those totals are incorrect. Becky Scott's bronze was upgraded to a gold and Russia lost a gold and a silver, so we're actually in fourth officially.
Click on the Medal Count Tab, then resend to Bill O'Reilly [/b][/quote]
Much more effective, to me, if you leave that out of it. Daradon is speaking from a more informed point of view than O'Reilly. He has initmate knowledge and an affinity for both societies.

What matters is NOT O'Reiily's motivation in expressing this stuff, what matters is that Daradon is pure in his motivation for disputing it. Otherwise, you've just got a big arguemnt of the war and why Chretien and Howard chose opposite in supporting it.

What good is that? You can find that anywhere. Making O'Reilly look like a fool with his own words is much more effective and worthwhile.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Fair enough, I see your POV there Dis.

I'm pretty stubborn, though, so I liked the unsubstantiated rhetoric at the end! Even though most of us know it's true.