Anonymous Poll: Should homosexuals be allowed to get married?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

We need a new poll option.

"No, but it's not cause I hate them, I actually really respect gay people and have a plethora of gay friends, so my opinion is totally fine and logical."

Cause, you can obviously respect someone YOU'RE KEEPING BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS AWAY FROM.

How many times has that appeared in this thread now? "I don't think gays should be allowed to marry, but I really respect and like them and am okay with them." As if

A. That makes it okay; and
B. Anyone here that doesn't share that warped opinion believes you.

You need a new avatar. Everytime I read one of your posts, I think you're a mod and I go to thank it, but I realize it's just you.

No offense I think you're a great guy and everything and I respect your opinion I just don't think a regular user should have the same benefits of a mod. Good argument no?

[HeartsOfFire]

On the off chance I may have looked too deeply into puckluck's previous post, and given the statement below, I'm just going to say nothing to see here, move along.

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[Traditional_Ale]

^ Pretty sure he was being Satirical.

[Doctordestiny]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I call complete and total BS. What kind of professional would allow their personal views to cost them clients? Absolute BS. I don't believe for one second you would say that.

Oh, really. That's exactly what I'd say, if asked. I wouldn't bring it up. In my business the people I deal with need honesty and sincerity and I think they'd appreciate my honesty and integrity. But you seem to know me so I'll bow to your superior understanding of my values.

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

Oh, really. That's exactly what I'd say, if asked.

How often are you asked?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

Oh, really. That's exactly what I'd say, if asked. I wouldn't bring it up. In my business the people I deal with need honesty and sincerity and I think they'd appreciate my honesty and integrity.

Perhaps they would, but it is still bad business. Good for you if they remain your client, but I doubt that they would.

[Doctordestiny]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Perhaps they would, but it is still bad business. Good for you if they remain your client, but I doubt that they would.

I'm in a business where honesty is essential. I tell my clients that I will always tell them the truth no matter what and I mean it. If my gay clients ever asked for my thoughts on gay marriage I'd say this: "While it doesn't affect our relationship in any way, I don't support gay marriage. Having said that, we've had a business relationship now for several years. Are we good?"

I'm certain the answer would be something like: "We can disagree on this and you're right it doesn't change anything. Yeah, we're good. Can we get back to business now?"

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

I'm in a business where honesty is essential. I tell my clients that I will always tell them the truth no matter what and I mean it. If my gay clients ever asked for my thoughts on gay marriage I'd say this: "While it doesn't affect our relationship in any way, I don't support gay marriage. Having said that, we've had a business relationship now for several years. Are we good?"

I'm certain the answer would be something like: "We can disagree on this and you're right it doesn't change anything. Yeah, we're good. Can we get back to business now?"

So you don't think marriage is a basic human right then?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

So you don't think marriage is a basic human right then?

What an odd way of framing a question. What are human rights, exactly and upon what do you base your belief in them?

[Devils'Advocate]

I'm not sure this one wins on utility-maximizing.

If 18% of the population are offended by gay marriage (and I think that that the readership of this forum is relatively young, meaning that I think that number would be much higher for the general populace) - and they feel that their marriage suffers, their society suffers - then they suffer, whether those things are true or not.

The benefit of marriage to homosexuals is mostly beneficial to the gay community. Not wholely, as I benefit from feeling good that my country has come out of the stone age and is allowing a formerly condemned people to enjoy matrimony. But the real benefits are limited to a very small population.

Where this wins is if you follow the philosophy that every man or woman deserves the same freedoms, including the one to join in the most sacred of bonds between two loving people.

Really, I don't think the smacking around gingers wins on utilitiarian grounds either...

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by peter12

What an odd way of framing a question. What are human rights, exactly and upon what do you base your belief in them?

Yeah, that was very odd wasn't it? Asking if you think marriage is a basic right. What a muddy, complicated question. I wish he could have made it more clear and straight-forward like your posts.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

I'm in a business where honesty is essential. I tell my clients that I will always tell them the truth no matter what and I mean it. If my gay clients ever asked for my thoughts on gay marriage I'd say this: "While it doesn't affect our relationship in any way, I don't support gay marriage. Having said that, we've had a business relationship now for several years. Are we good?"

I'm certain the answer would be something like: "We can disagree on this and you're right it doesn't change anything. Yeah, we're good. Can we get back to business now?"

I guess I just have a hard time believing most of your clients wouldn't have a problem with that. If my banker (or whatever you do) came to me and said "hey, we've had a business relationship for years, but just to let you know, I don't support Chinese people getting married", I'd be terribly offended and would tell you to go take a hike.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yeah, that was very odd wasn't it? Asking if you think marriage is a basic right. What a muddy, complicated question. I wish he could have made it more clear and straight-forward like your posts.

I find it so confusing that people think that for anything to have meaning it has to be recognized and condoned by the State.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

What an odd way of framing a question. What are human rights, exactly and upon what do you base your belief in them?

Imo, human rights include:

- The right to be alive and unfearful of losing your life to another human.
- The right of freedom to choose how you live your life so long as it brings no harm to others.
- The right to pursue your interests so long as it brings no harm to others.
- The right to love and be loved.
- The right to marriage and being recognized by society.
- The right of freedom from slavery.
- The right of freedom to choose to procreate or adopt children or not to.

Some ideas. I've based my belief in this idea on that these "rights" are very intrinsic and free from tainting by religion or media.

EDIT: Or the state.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

I find it so confusing that people think that for anything to have meaning it has to be recognized and condoned by the State.

Not the state; society. As in I believe in the basic human right that my marriage should be recognized by society. To hell with the "state".

[Doctordestiny]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I guess I just have a hard time believing most of your clients wouldn't have a problem with that. If my banker (or whatever you do) came to me and said "hey, we've had a business relationship for years, but just to let you know, I don't support Chinese people getting married", I'd be terribly offended and would tell you to go take a hike.

So would I frankly, but that's a different matter.

BTW, to the poster who quoted the 20% oppostion, I recall a poll taken by the Globe and Mail that (at that time at least) with a very different result. Times are different now and the audience is very different but don't extrapolate the results of this poll to assume 80% of Canadians support gay marriage. Understand that this forum has a large proportion of athiests and believers will have very different views. Also, I know there are people on this forum who refuse to take part in this poll or comment in the discussion because they are Christians and know they'll get trashed for their beliefs. I have friends who are members here who have told me this.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

BTW, to the poster who quoted the 20% oppostion, I recall a poll taken by the Globe and Mail that (at that time at least) with a very different result. Times are different now and the audience is very different but don't extrapolate the results of this poll to assume 80% of Canadians support gay marriage. Understand that this forum has a large proportion of athiests and believers will have very different views. Also, I know there are people on this forum who refuse to take part in this poll or comment in the discussion because they are Christians and know they'll get trashed for their beliefs. I have friends who are members here who have told me this.

You do know this IS CP, right? While I don't condone trashing, calling BS and debating sometimes kind of harshly is pretty par for the course.

FWIW, I for one appreciate your contributions to this thread, even if I don't agree.

[HeartsOfFire]

It'll only be a matter of time before either:

1) The Church changes its doctrine to get with the times, as it has done so many times over the centuries, or

2) Refusing to get with the times, their congregational numbers drop to insignificant numbers in enlightened countries that they become minorities no one bothers to pay attention to, or

3) A war breaks out between Atheists and all theological parties due to differences of opinion and refusal to compromise.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Not the state; society. As in I believe in the basic human right that my marriage should be recognized by society. To hell with the "state".

That's totally cool, then the entire controversy over legalized gay marriage should be beside the point.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

That's totally cool, then the entire controversy over legalized gay marriage should be beside the point.

I think if you change "controversy over legalized gay marriage" to "controversy over mainstream sociological acceptance of gay marriage" then you're closer to my point.