Anonymous Poll: Should homosexuals be allowed to get married?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I think the enthusiasm for some to label homosexuality a choice is because this scenario allows them to look at an individual who is homosexual and claim that they made a conscious choice to commit immoral behaviour. If someone chooses to be immoral, then you might feel more justified in condemning their behaviour. If it's not a choice, like eye colour, then you can't play the immorality card and you're kinda left with... not much.

I submit that this group of people really don't care if it is genetic / inherited, as they're not interested in genetics anyways.

Genetics sounds like that evolution and science mumbo jumbo that creationism has proved wrong countless times. God created us and that's that!

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Genetics sounds like that evolution and science mumbo jumbo that creationism has proved wrong countless times. God created us and that's that!

Amen!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'll take a stab at it if I may...

As a Christian, I am taught that Jesus is 'the way the truth and the light' and also that Jesus is 'love'. Noone gets to the Father but through him. But if Jesus is love, then is not also love the way the truth and the light and the only way to get to the Father?

What it boils down to, and what Jesus was trying to convey is that ABOVE ALL ELSE, we are to LOVE. Love is what makes us whole. How can you deny someone the ability for wholeness?

That is on the personal level. Homosexuality, if considering a 'sin' by religious folks, isn't any worse than any other sin, and the Bible is quite clear about loving the sinner, hating the sin. Are we going to hell because we don't have a hate-on for gay people? Absolutely not. I think Christians should go out of their way to have a caring attitude towards all people, regardless of who they are and where they come from.

But, all of that is on the personal level.

The 'gay marriage' issue on a political level, is a different cup of tea. Politically a Christian cannot apply their belief system and let it influence the government. I think that is wrong, and I think the Bible is quite clear that there should be a separation of church and state.

Now, I know a lot of people will say I'm going to hell if I support gay marriage, and they can have that opinion. I just feel that if we want to live in a free country, the reasonable rights of other people might be accepted as well. As long as both sides are willing participants in the marriage, why do I care? It doesn't affect me. Not politically, and certainly not in any 'spiritual' way.

[HeartsOfFire]

I think a lot of people that claim others are going to hell are going to have the surprise of their eternal life when they're called to judgment. Assuming that there is an afterlife.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Genetics sounds like that evolution and science mumbo jumbo that creationism has proved wrong countless times. God created us and that's that!

Just to be clear on my personal perspective, I've no problems with that branch of creationism that believes God oversaw the development of the Earth and the life on it. If someone says that the Earth is 5 billion years old and life on it developed through a modified evolutionary process just as God intended, then I don't think there are any data to refute that stance.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

I don't think there is one. Although peter12's reasoning about gay sex being less romantic if gays get to marry was the most creative.

It ain't creative, it's philosophy. I was also more than willing to admit that at this stage, I can't think of a legitimate reason for homosexuals not to get married. It's a sign of the times. Democratic egalitarianism has wiped away any traces of the old virtues that used to make us human. We're just utilitarian seeking machines that speak the language of liberal rights.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by peter12

Democratic egalitarianism has wiped away any traces of the old virtues that used to make us human.

What old virtues used to make us human?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

Some of the posters here seem to equate opposition to gay marriage as hatred of gays. I oppose gay marriage but do not hate gays. As Christians we're to hate the sin but love the sinner. I have business clients who are gay and it matters not to me. In fact, one pair of gay clients of mine told me later they were testing me to find out how I would treat them as a couple. I accept their relationship. They were very pleased to see that I treated them as I do my male-female relationship clients. If they asked me if I supported their ability to marry, I'd say I didn't, but I like and respect them.

I call complete and total BS. What kind of professional would allow their personal views to cost them clients? Absolute BS. I don't believe for one second you would say that.

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by peter12

It Democratic egalitarianism has wiped away any traces of the old virtues that used to make us human.

Last I checked, that which made me human was my ability to walk upright on two legs, use my hands to grip and hold onto tools, my ability to communicate orally, and my sentience. Philosophies have nothing to do with what make us human; they have everything to do with defining our personal values, ethics, morals -- our individual identities.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

It ain't creative, it's philosophy. I was also more than willing to admit that at this stage, I can't think of a legitimate reason for homosexuals not to get married. It's a sign of the times. Democratic egalitarianism has wiped away any traces of the old virtues that used to make us human. We're just utilitarian seeking machines that speak the language of liberal rights.

I got a headache reading that. Can you dumb that down for me a bit?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I got a headache reading that. Can you dumb that down for me a bit?

Thinking and writing that was done a long time ago = good.

Thinking and writing that was done recently = bad.

[Blaster86]

We need a new poll option.

"No, but it's not cause I hate them, I actually really respect gay people and have a plethora of gay friends, so my opinion is totally fine and logical."

Cause, you can obviously respect someone YOU'RE KEEPING BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS AWAY FROM.

How many times has that appeared in this thread now? "I don't think gays should be allowed to marry, but I really respect and like them and am okay with them." As if

A. That makes it okay; and
B. Anyone here that doesn't share that warped opinion believes you.

[Traditional_Ale]

^ Calling Doctordestiny.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Thinking and writing that was done a long time ago = good.

Thinking and writing that was done recently = bad.

Also, granting rights to gays (and presumably black people and women) makes us inhuman.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by peter12

Democratic egalitarianism has wiped away any traces of the old virtues that used to make us human.

Please, expand on this.

And if you can, try not to use words like egalitarianism. I'm slow.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

We need a new poll option.

"No, but it's not cause I hate them, I actually really respect gay people and have a plethora of gay friends, so my opinion is totally fine and logical."

Cause, you can obviously respect someone YOU'RE KEEPING BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS AWAY FROM.

How many times has that appeared in this thread now? "I don't think gays should be allowed to marry, but I really respect and like them and am okay with them." As if

A. That makes it okay; and
B. Anyone here that doesn't share that warped opinion believes you.

I think you're making too big a deal of this argument.

I have a plethora of black friends, and as long as they don't use the same water fountain as me, it will stay that way.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Last I checked, that which made me human was my ability to walk upright on two legs, use my hands to grip and hold onto tools, my ability to communicate orally, and my sentience. Philosophies have nothing to do with what make us human; they have everything to do with defining our personal values, ethics, morals -- our individual identities.

I'll use this post as a general response.

This first part is what makes you an animal. What makes you a rational being is your ability to ask "what we need to love," "why we need to love," etc...

There is no "philosophies." There is philosophy, the love and desire for knowledge.

When I say "democratic egalitarianism" what I am really referring to is symbolized by the final sentence of your post. That is, this rather modern notion that there is no truth to be uncovered about humanity. Rather, the modern view is that we are all atomized, individualistic, utilitarian-maximizing semi-mechanical beings. This is what the entire modern notion of liberal rights is based upon.

I wholesomely reject this for reasons I am still trying to figure out.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

What old virtues used to make us human?

Well, they haven't gone away. Humans are rational beings descended from the eternal order of things.

But as for virtues that I think have decayed...? Courage, a love for the beautiful, eros or contemplative sexual desire.

I also totally admit that I could be wrong. If anyone is interested, I follow more of the Straussian school which definitely pushes the Ancients to a higher plane of revelation than most of the moderns. Nietzscheans would probably mock me.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by peter12

This first part is what makes you an animal.

No, the first part is what separates us from other animals on this planet, and thus, what makes us human and not animal.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

No, the first part is what separates us from other animals on this planet, and thus, what makes us human and not animal.

You mean the material means to satisfy our immediate appetites? Nope, pretty sure all animals have that.