Anonymous Poll: Should homosexuals be allowed to get married?

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Curious, how long have you been equally attracted to both sexes?

10 years.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Even in the non-homosexual way, your comment is absurd.

You can choose who you are attracted to. Millions of women would drop everything for a second with George Clooney or Sidney Crosby. I'd rather poke my eyes out with a hot stick while walking on rusty nails. Same thing with Megan Fox.

We all make decisions day to day who we are attracted to. You can see someone behind the counter at your coffee shop and feel attraction to them but turn around and see someone at a table and be hideously replused.

I'm sorry but what? This makes absolutely no sense.

Lets use your argument and apply it to food. Take something you absolutely love to eat, and something you absolutely hate to eat. Are you telling me you can tell your brain to switch off what you think tastes good and what doesn't? If so, why in the world you ever eat junk food at all?

[photon]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Okay, so I guess being gay means you won't have any friends or family then. Alright then. Because you can't survive on one good family member or one good friend? You don't need a LARGE group of people to accept you and support you. You just need one.

That's what I'm saying, we're fortunate to be in a time where people can find that person (or even more people), in the past there was a time (and it's still this way in some places) where prospects for finding even that one person were slim to nil, so the choices were either hide it, come out and be outcast, or kill yourself because both choices are worse than death to you.

Originally Posted by Drury18

No, some people don't have the balls to do what they need to in order to live their life. I accept this. I don't understand it, but I accept it. And feel sorry for them.

Cold. Everyone is different. Some people can deal with some things better than others, just because someone can't deal with being outcast by everyone they love they warrant pity?

It's not about balls, everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and being put into a position where your weakness is exploited isn't about balls, any more than you not being able to bench press a fridge is about balls.

Originally Posted by Drury18

I'm not even sure where to begin on this one.

Experience it moreso then actually living this lifestyle or from the side of those who *think* they know what its about to be one? Clarify that one for me!

Experience it differently than you seem to have then.

So what do you say to those others who talk about coming close to or attempting suicide because of their sexuality and how those around them react? Is it simply an issue of not having enough balls?

It seems to be a lot more complicated than that.

Originally Posted by Drury18

Okay, so to back up here. It's human to be a social animal and need family and friends, but only acceptable if your straight.

No, where did I say that??

Originally Posted by Drury18

If you're straight and lose your family and friends because of a heterosexual relationship that isn't accepted that's okay. You'll find a surrogate family and friends and your life will be just as fine. You don't really need that real family.

Of course not, that's despicable, where did I say it's ok?

Originally Posted by Drury18

But if you're gay and lose your family and friends because of your gay choices, well that's much worse.

It could be much worse depending...

Hetrosexual couple A gets married and gets rejected by their family and friends.. they move to a new part of town and make new friends, it's terrible but they'll still be part of society.

Homosexual couple B gets married and gets rejected by their family and friends.. they move to a new part of town and make new friends, it's terrible but they'll still be part of society.

The same right? Rewind 50 years. Now couple B moves, but still can't make friends or even be publicly homosexual because they'll be ostracized by society, people react negatively, violently sometimes.. or this all takes place in another country where homosexuality is illegal, they can't move, they can't marry, they can't even express their sexuality.

So yes I think that socially it was (and still is, the degree changing by location) far harder for homosexuals socially. I'm still unclear here though as to actually if you are disagreeing that it was harder, or just how much harder it was.

Originally Posted by Drury18

I'd like to know when that "non-trivial" portion of society is going to start protesting against the copious amounts of straight people that are disease ridden from sleeping with numerous sex partners they don't know the first names of and commit much worse atrocities on society.

Good question, I'd like to know as well! I never said those people were rational, but rational or irrational they are still out there.

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have gay friends, and their partner count is much lower then all of my straight friends. Not all homosexuals sleep with everything that moves.

Of course, I didn't claim otherwise.

Are we crossing wires here?

Originally Posted by Drury18

When I was 17. Before that it was actually only to men because that's all I felt attraction too. Probably should point out at this time I am a girl.

So at 17 you just decided to be attracted to females? Or you discovered it?

Even if you decided it, wouldn't there still have to be some attraction already there? I mean I could decide today "I'm going to be attracted to men" and start dating men, but deciding that isn't going to help in the bedroom when I fail to have an, um, physical reaction to the situation because I'm not attracted to the other (unfortunate ) guy.

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have chosen to be bisexual because yes, while I was born and raised that the only relationships acceptable were those between men and women, I chose to disregard all of that when I was younger and explore relationships with women because I can't understand the hang up about why it matters whether its someone of the opposite sex or same sex when it comes to love. If you love someone, be with them.

You have chosen to be bisexual but I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. When I asked "You could choose to be a homosexual? REALLY?" I didn't mean choosing your actions, I meant choosing your attractions. So you chose to explore your bisexuality, but you didn't sit down one day and say "I'm going to become attracted to females today" right?

Originally Posted by Drury18

And yes, I am attracted to both sexes equally. Although I'm sure someone here will make the comment I only do it for attention and everything else that goes along in the stigma of being bi.

Lol, well I'd ask those same people who say you do it for attention how often they'd had a same sex relationship for attention.

Could you be bisexual if you were not attracted to both sexes?

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Drury18

You are actually serious?

You obviously don't have the testicular fortitude to do something outside of socially acceptable standards and are too busy fitting in to actually choose to live your life. Have you ever made an upopular decision before in your life or do you cave like a house of cards when you are approached with something controversial?

Of course I have, but I pick and choose my fights. When you know an individual well enough, you can make an accurate prediction as to how a certain action or spoken opinion will make them react. If the potential consequences of such an action brings more harm than good, then choosing to do or say nothing is the preferred tactic.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."
-Thumper's father

"Sometimes 'tis better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
- Mark Twain

If someone like friends or family abandon you for making choices they don't agree with, that's their problem. Why would you want to keep around false friends and family? Just so that you can have a peaceful "normal" life? That's BS! Total BS.

I agree, it is. But when you're talking about people you love, people that you want to have in your life, you will make whatever sacrifice is necessary to keep them in your life. If you are not willing to make those sacrifices, then you do not love them for who THEY are, and you are just as guilty.

As for having no other choice, you make it sound like you can either live a lie, be gay and be chastised for it, or die. Should gays just kill themselves since they obviously cannot stand a chance of living the same fullfilled life a straight person does? Is that what you would suggest to someone struggling whether to live a lie or come out?

Many do.

I guess that's where we differ. No, I wouldn't choose the cakewalk through life because I'd end up some prentenious prick who is so out of touch with reality it isn't funny. <snip>

I would argue that you are already a pretentious prick by what you've said up to this point.

You didn't choose to be white or male those were your genetics, but you have chosen to be Canadian and heterosexual. At any point, you could leave the country and take up citizenship elsewhere. You have chosen not to. Just like you could chose to be homosexual or bisexual. But you have chosen not to. You could wake up tomorrow and choose to be an alcholic, junkie, rapist, serial killer or naked cowboy playing in the streets of downtown. But you will wake up and choose not to be.

You and I choose to admire and seek beautiful women when they pass through our field of vision, because that is what we are attracted to. That is what catches our attention. That is what gets our sexual systems kicking. Unlike us however, a homosexual is attracted to members of the same sex rather than the opposite. This is not a choice. This is a natural occurence, a genetic predisposition. Homosexuality, for what it has had to endure through millenia and despite the level of acceptance it enjoys today, is such an abnormal behaviour it literally sets its members apart from the majority of society. I understand, appreciate, and respect the concept on non-conformatism, but Homosexuality is far too extreme a lifestyle change to be considered non-conformist. No one in their right mind would choose to be homosexual in a world filled with heterosexuals.

So I was right about caving like a house of cards. The fact you feel that you have to be someone else around those with a mutual bond for their sake is saddening because if you have a bond with someone, they would be willing to accept you for who you are, not who you pretend to be in their presence.

By that logic, I should expect anyone that I hold near and dear to my heart to help hide the body of the man in my trunk right now, yes? Because if they don't, then how can they be a true friend?

Everyone's friendship and trust has a way in, and a boundary. In order to win their friendship, you have to do enough for them to let you in. For some people, that's as easy as being yourself. These people tend to be very accepting inviduals. Others you have to work a little harder for. Scratch my back, then I'll scratch yours. Conversely, friends won't remain friends long if your actions and/or words make them uncomfortable. Maybe you're too eager to pick fights for their comfort, for example.

Again, this comes back to my question of "If something is hard to do in life, should you just not do it because its going to be socially unpopular?"

So because you could take flack from a bigot for being a homosexual, much like you could take flack for being a Flames Fan, Twilight Fan, Country Music fan, 4 foot mohawked and modded skateboarding kid you shouldn't do it because someone might not like it?

It does not come back to your question at all, because I've already stated that I don't give a toss what a complete stranger thinks of me. But I happen to be in the fortunate position of not being outrageously abnormal at first glance. Were I homosexual, I personally would not want to do anything that draws attention from the general public to that fact. My sexual orientation is really no one's business but my own, and those close to me. For that same reason, I don't feel the need to put a 'Straight Pride' bumper sticker on my car. The fundamental reason that people do such things is just so they can draw attention to themselves.

Finally, demanding that people accept you for who you are without exception will lead to an address book that's constantly being changed, and bridges that are forever being burned down and never rebuilt. I find it disturbing that you can so callously dismiss someone if they have a problem with certain characteristics or traits about you. That's more anti-social than even I am.

[Traditional_Ale]

"Sometimes 'tis better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
- Mark Twain

"Sometimes 'tis better to speak and be thought an @$$hole, than remain silent and be thought a coward."
- Traditional_Ale

[GrrlGoalie33]

I can tell you all from personal experience, I did not choose to be gay. All through high school and into college, I dated men. It wasn't until I was in my early 20's that I even thought I might be gay. It was never a choice, it was a realization. I am not now and have never been attracted to men.

I believe though, that some people choose to be gay. It is also my opinion that most people who identify as gay have no choice in the matter.

Female country music singer Chely Wright recently came out, she describes growing up knowing she was gay. She prayed to God every day so that he would make her straight. Tell me, does that sound like the experience of someone who chose to be gay?

Maybe I'm reading things wrong here, but Drury18, I find your viewpoints to be very narrow for someone who suggests they are a part of the LGBT community.

[PIMking]

Homosexuals have just as much as a right to be miserable as us strait people.

I'm not gay and have no issues with gay folks. I know I'm not pretty enough for a gay guy to take a fancy in me.

But what he or she does in the bedroom is their own choice and the government or some book that was written by man should ever dictate. I get tired of all the bible thumpers down here that preach about it.

It's not that big of a deal. Let them get married and pay taxes just like the rest of strait married folk. Good lord.

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

"Sometimes 'tis better to speak and be thought an @$$hole, than remain silent and be thought a coward."
- Traditional_Ale

Pray tell, in what situation would that be?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Pray tell, in what situation would that be?

"Sometimes 'tis better to speak and be thought an @$$hole, than remain silent and be thought a coward."
- Traditional_Ale

Better?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

If marriage is viewed as a religious ceremony and homosexuality is not accepted in the religious views, how can one with (strong) faith accept gay marriage? I don't think it has ever been accepted by religion that people pick and choose what parts to believe and which to disregard on an individual or case-by-case basis.

A 'tolerant' person with faith must then choose between questioning their religious foundation or perhaps requesting that a different word be used.

It's because a lot of people who follow their religion too closely are basically living in the dinosaur ages.....er wait, I can't use that one because there were no dinosaurs in their eyes.

[PIMking]

The people that are such bible thumpers bother me. They think the bible is the word of god when it was written by man. Also why are some books left out of the bible and some are put in? Religion is a joke sometimes that causes wayyyyy too much problems with death and war (middle east)

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by PIMking

The people that are such bible thumpers bother me. They think the bible is the word of god when it was written by man. Also why are some books left out of the bible and some are put in? Religion is a joke sometimes that causes wayyyyy too much problems with death and war (middle east)

Imo, organized mainstream religion is the greatest cancer of humanity. I cannot wait for the day we are free from the war, bigotry, fear mongering, oppression, and downright idiocy it propogates. So much suffering, for some stupid white-bearded bashtard in the sky.

[photon]

Alright if you want a general religion discussion thread then you can make one, lets keep this one on same sex marriage.

[Traditional_Ale]

^ Word.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

^ Word.

Word to your word.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by photon

Maybe someone who is religious and accepts same sex marriage can explain how they resolve the seeming conflict.

I'll take a stab at it if I may...

As a Christian, I am taught that Jesus is 'the way the truth and the light' and also that Jesus is 'love'. Noone gets to the Father but through him. But if Jesus is love, then is not also love the way the truth and the light and the only way to get to the Father?

What it boils down to, and what Jesus was trying to convey is that ABOVE ALL ELSE, we are to LOVE. Love is what makes us whole. How can you deny someone the ability for wholeness?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Homosexuals have just as much as a right to be miserable as us strait people.

That the answer.

Lets force all gay people to get married to they realize what we are put through on a daily basis!

All about equality I tell you.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I'll take a stab at it if I may...

As a Christian, I am taught that Jesus is 'the way the truth and the light' and also that Jesus is 'love'. Noone gets to the Father but through him. But if Jesus is love, then is not also love the way the truth and the light and the only way to get to the Father?

What it boils down to, and what Jesus was trying to convey is that ABOVE ALL ELSE, we are to LOVE. Love is what makes us whole. How can you deny someone the ability for wholeness?

This. Exactly This.

A few years ago I had 2 brothers. Now I have a brother and a sister.

My youngest brother announced to our immediate family and his wife a year or so ago that he was gay. Last week he announced it on Facebook.

In both situations my church is against their actions/situations/ or "choices" as some of them put it. Many in the church use that as a reason to fight against these people and push them from their lives.

I loved them before they were openly different and I don't see how it them announcing it has changed anything in that regard. If a Christian claims to love all of creation, why should that change because they didn't turn out how you wanted them to?

My aunt was particularly rough in what she said to my brother last week, and he responded, in part, with this which I think sums it up quite nicely, although from the other side of the coin.

I don't say any of this as a gay man, but I say this as a child of God, as someone you held as a baby, your sister's little boy, and as your nephew who loves you, no matter what you think of him.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Personally, I'm a somewhat religious person. I believe in God, I believe the Bible is a good tool to help guide your life and a source of moral guidance. However I am not a fanatic, I believe to each their own. I do not try an convert anyone, and I do not take part in frivolous debate over religion. I realize that organized religion has been used to control people, has been used as a political tool, and despite being overall a good thing for people it can be used and has been used for bad. But why blame the religion, shouldn't you be blaming the people speaking incorrectly in its name?

I'm half asleep, so hopefully that's somewhat coherent. Basically I'm not the most religious person in the world, however do consider myself a Christian, and try to follow the religion, although not to a tee.

So gay marriage. The Bible doesn't say it's wrong to be gay, the Bible does condemn sodomy. However, a documentary I watched on Sodom had several Biblical scholars argue the anti-Sodom writings of the Bible actually deal with the towns people's treatment of strangers and outsiders of the city, and not any homosexual activity.

Fred Phelps (I believe that's what the crack-pot's name is) cites Leviticus 18:22 which states "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." However the first 21 verses of Leviticus outline all the women men can't sleep with. It seems to be more of a "yeah you can't sleep with your mother, sister, aunt, daughter, or grandmother, and rather than type all that out again, the male equivalents too". Seriously you can't clip just a sentence fragment and condemn people with it.

There are Christian religions that bar the use of alcohol. Mormons don't believe in drinking caffeine. Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. All seem crazy to me, but our society is tolerant enough to embrace their differences, and not look down upon the others for it. So why is gay marriage any different? Why is it the big exception?

[Doctordestiny]

Some of the posters here seem to equate opposition to gay marriage as hatred of gays. I oppose gay marriage but do not hate gays. As Christians we're to hate the sin but love the sinner. I have business clients who are gay and it matters not to me. In fact, one pair of gay clients of mine told me later they were testing me to find out how I would treat them as a couple. I accept their relationship. They were very pleased to see that I treated them as I do my male-female relationship clients. If they asked me if I supported their ability to marry, I'd say I didn't, but I like and respect them.