Anonymous Poll: Should homosexuals be allowed to get married?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Russic

In many nature/nurture scenarios it is often not a 100% one way or the other. I hate to rip on Texas here, but for this example they're an easy target. If you have somebody born in California and somebody born in texas that are both gay, the way those kids are raised could have a large impact on how they express their sexuality. Many gay people lead completely heterosexual lifestyles based on what they've been taught or how they feel they'll be perceived. My argument is that many (but not all) people might not be necessarily choosing to be gay or straight, but rather they are choosing how they identify themselves publicly.

Because 100% of identical twins aren't gay like their sibling means that there is something else in play, however the crazy high rate of gay people who have gay twins is impossible to ignore. There is surely a genetic factor and it's been recognized in the scientific community (the REAL scientific community) for a surprisingly long time.

That high rate of occurance could just as easily be enviromental. Siblings tend to live together for the first few years of their lives and would presumably have simular experiences. We don't know. What we do know (or at least should) is that we have a choice in how we live and what we do. We are not preprogramed.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by fotze

I too have identical twin relatives, but they both are/were both gay. That unequivocally eliminates your argument.

Tegan and Sara?

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Russic

Because 100% of identical twins aren't gay like their sibling means that there is something else in play, however the crazy high rate of gay people who have gay twins is impossible to ignore.

Links please.

I can't help but to suspect twins biologically parented, and raised by gays are freakishly rare in the first place.

[Pinner]

Are kids more likely to be gay if they are raised by gays?

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

What we do know (or at least should) is that we have a choice in how we live and what we do. We are not preprogramed.

The choice doesn't happen in a vacuum though. You choose to have a relationship with a female, but you don't choose to be attracted to them. Or are you saying you could choose to be attracted to men?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Are kids more likely to be gay if they are raised by gays?

That would be a tough thing to study.

I imagine that there would be a higher number of children raised by gays who don't live their lives in the closet, so it might skew how things appear.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Are kids more likely to be gay if they are raised by gays?

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/6908.html

In two studies, a greater number of young adult children raised by lesbians had participated in or considered a same-sex relationship or had an attraction to the same sex. However, statistically, they were no more likely to identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual.

That is from a study of many other studies, but there are so many variables involved it's hard to establish causation.

[The Yen Man]

I really don't understand, for the people who vote no, why do you care if two people of the same sex want to marry? It doesn't affect you in any way whatsoever.

And if you're going to use that religious argument, last time I heard, sex before marriage is a no no too. I'm guessing all you who voted no have a problem with that as well?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

The choice doesn't happen in a vacuum though. You choose to have a relationship with a female, but you don't choose to be attracted to them. Or are you saying you could choose to be attracted to men?

I'm saying that boys go through a stage in their lives where a knot in a tree stump will give them a woody. Those intense urges which ultimately is to stimulate to ejaculation can be satisfied in unhealthy avenues. Those unhealthy avenues can become deeply ingrained habits. How often can we trace a rapists or pedophiles behaviour to that vulnerable age? Often we find there has been sexual abuse against them but, certainly not always. That intense desire to orgasm appears to be enough motivation for some.

There has been less research on enviromental conditioning than there has on a possible genetic link. Niether one should be thrown out before the facts are in.

Unfortunately there is a great amount of political pressure to accept the notion that homosexuality is genetically predisposed. I doubt you will find much interest in conducting research in that area.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I'm saying that boys go through a stage in their lives where a knot in a tree stump will give them a woody. Those intense urges which ultimately is to stimulate to ejaculation can be satisfied in unhealthy avenues. Those unhealthy avenues can become deeply ingrained habits. How often can we trace a rapists or pedophiles behaviour to that vulnerable age? Often we find there has been sexual abuse against them but, certainly not always. That intense desire to orgasm appears to be enough motivation for some.

There has been less research on enviromental conditioning than there has on a possible genetic link. Niether one should be thrown out before the facts are in.

Unfortunately there is a great amount of political pressure to accept the notion that homosexuality is genetically predisposed. I doubt you will find much interest in conducting research in that area.

In the end though even if you find that being Gay is caused by some enviromental factors by the time a person is 16 or 18 or 30 nothing can really be done about it and it isn't a choice as evidenced by the numourous failed deprogramming camps throughout the states.

I think the bigger fear of researchers is finding the "Gay" gene. Then you open a whole can of worms of getting genetic tests done and parents aborting Gay babies or using pre-selection of embryos to prevent Gays from being born.

If you were doing selection for other traits Eye Colour, Male vs Female, Smarter, More Athletic and were given the choice on the check the Gay or Straight box which do you check. I think that fear is one of the factors preventing research into genetics as the cause of homosexuality.

[AvsJerk]

Originally Posted by Thor

Well at most its still 2 of 10 people are backwards people, not bad considering our American neighbors to the south.

I wonder how many of the no's come from the US and how many come from Canada.

Hey, judgemental is judgemental regardless as to what the subject is. Nice job lumping a diverse nation of many, many people into one descriptor of "backwards people". It's this type of generality that leads to bigotry.

For the record, I voted yes. I couldn't care less what people do with their lives. However, I do think the whole tax break for married people is a bunch of B.S....should be tax breaks for not overpopulating the planet. I'm also tired of almost 50% of my property taxes going to fund the school district...let the parents pony-up the lions share of education.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by AvsJerk

Hey, judgemental is judgemental regardless as to what the subject is. Nice job lumping a diverse nation of many, many people into one descriptor of "backwards people". It's this type of generality that leads to bigotry.

For the record, I voted yes. I couldn't care less what people do with their lives. However, I do think the whole tax break for married people is a bunch of B.S....should be tax breaks for not overpopulating the planet. I'm also tired of almost 50% of my property taxes going to fund the school district...let the parents pony-up the lions share of education.

Off topic but C'mon us guys having kids are creating the future economy, the future doctors, the future golf course maitenance personal, the future waitresses, the future pilots etc etc. The people required for you to live your life and retire. Without us in twenty years the whole bottom end of the employment pool collapses and in 40 most of the roads and electricity system are done.

Not only do we provide that for you but we sacrifice our standard of living compared to yours to do it. So everytime you pay 50% of your property taxes to education you should be thinking thank God someone is having kids so that our enconomy doesn't collaspe before you die.

[HeartsOfFire]

There are only two ways to tell the complete truth, and to express one's heartfelt opinion:

Anonymously and posthumously.

Additionally, on the topic of Homosexuality as a choice vs genetic disposition: Do you -- generally speaking, not directed at anyone in particular -- honestly think that a gay man or woman chose to be that way? Because I cannot. I cannot fathom why anyone would prefer partners of the same sex over the opposite, especially with the negative social stigma that continues to exist in some social circles.

That alone is all the evidence I need to know that Homosexuality is 'hard-wired genetics' and cannot be influenced by environment or upbringing.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by GGG

Off topic but C'mon us guys having kids are creating the future economy, the future doctors, the future golf course maitenance personal, the future waitresses, the future pilots etc etc. The people required for you to live your life and retire. Without us in twenty years the whole bottom end of the employment pool collapses and in 40 most of the roads and electricity system are done.

Not only do we provide that for you but we sacrifice our standard of living compared to yours to do it. So everytime you pay 50% of your property taxes to education you should be thinking thank God someone is having kids so that our enconomy doesn't collaspe before you die.

Where is my thank you for not adding more to an already over-populated, materialistic, let me take anything I want society? Where is my thank you for not having kids, which adds to the social benefit that your kids get more of because there are fewer people using them. Do straight couples who choose not to have kids also have to get on their knees and bow to you?

Pretty ridiculous IMO. I'm pretty sure the reason you had kids is because you wanted to, and not because you felt the "need" to further society. You didn't sacrifice your standard of living, you chose to live that way. If you feel like you sacrificed anything, then maybe you shouldn't have those kids...

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by AvsJerk

However, I do think the whole tax break for married people is a bunch of B.S....should be tax breaks for not overpopulating the planet. I'm also tired of almost 50% of my property taxes going to fund the school district...let the parents pony-up the lions share of education.

Do you have even a remote idea what kind of commitment is required to raise a family ?

Yah, you deserve a tax break for not raising a family.

[Shazam]

Married people get tax breaks? Pfft.

[AvsJerk]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Do you have even a remote idea what kind of commitment is required to raise a family ?

Yah, you deserve a tax break for not raising a family.

I have a pretty good idea of the kind and duration of commitment required to raise a family...and that's one of the reasons I choose not to partake in such an endeavor...another reason is that I am not in a financial position right now to do it properly. I'm also an ugly jerk, so that doesn't help

Maybe if more people were aware of the commitment required to raise a family, the "village" wouldn't get stuck supporting so many of these kids when the family falls apart.

*This is not a passion of mine, I don't lose any sleep over this...just an observation. If two people (regardless of sexual orientation) want to get married and raise a family, have at it, just try to limit the amount I have to fork over when you're not prepared or things don't work out.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Additionally, on the topic of Homosexuality as a choice vs genetic disposition: Do you -- generally speaking, not directed at anyone in particular -- honestly think that a gay man or woman chose to be that way? Because I cannot. I cannot fathom why anyone would prefer partners of the same sex over the opposite, especially with the negative social stigma that continues to exist in some social circles.

That alone is all the evidence I need to know that Homosexuality is 'hard-wired genetics' and cannot be influenced by environment or upbringing.

So because something is unpopular or unaccepted, that means there is no way you could choose to do it?

Life is all about choices. Some people are just less influenced by what others think to be able to make the choice to be homosexual or whatever else they need to be to be themselves.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I'm saying that boys go through a stage in their lives where a knot in a tree stump will give them a woody. Those intense urges which ultimately is to stimulate to ejaculation can be satisfied in unhealthy avenues. Those unhealthy avenues can become deeply ingrained habits. How often can we trace a rapists or pedophiles behaviour to that vulnerable age? Often we find there has been sexual abuse against them but, certainly not always. That intense desire to orgasm appears to be enough motivation for some.

There has been less research on enviromental conditioning than there has on a possible genetic link. Niether one should be thrown out before the facts are in.

Unfortunately there is a great amount of political pressure to accept the notion that homosexuality is genetically predisposed. I doubt you will find much interest in conducting research in that area.

So what you're saying is that if I had happened to have stumbled on a scrambled gay porn as opposed to my usual straight porn, where boobs and elbows were indistinguishable, I'd now be a huge Bette Midler fan and spend my weekends trolling for dudes?

Sounds like a good theory.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Drury18

So because something is unpopular or unaccepted, that means there is no way you could choose to do it?

Life is all about choices. Some people are just less influenced by what others think to be able to make the choice to be homosexual or whatever else they need to be to be themselves.

So are gay people all lying when they say it wasn't a choice?