Jammies, I agree 100% with your point about the need for the peaceful protest groups to actively work against the 'moron' groups who are only there to wreck stuff. Not only would it make people more supportive of their right to organize protests, but it will make people more sympathetic to their causes and may also get more people involved in their causes. This would be great, because more voices being active in a democracy speaking up makes for a healthier country, in my opinion.
If I'm a peaceful protestor, which I have been multiple times in the past, how do you expect me to extinguish the activities of a bunch of thugs with clubs and bricks?
They could be ostracized further by the peaceful rotest community but if you look at the video of all of the anarchists marching on Toronto, there aren't many other different types of protestors there with them. They were a marching gang, they weren't a part of the larger movement.
Then have the protest groups working with the police to neutralize the gangs, or morons, or whatever. The organizers of such protests should have the ability to get something put together. As you said, 'peaceful' protestors should have no need for clubs and bricks, therefore, anyone who does have those is not in the area for peaceful reasons. Judging by what I saw on the news, they should also be identifiable because they'll have their faces covered.
I think protesting is all about the PR war, and right now, the impression I get is that the people doing the protesting, fair or not, are losing it by a pretty wide margin.
If I'm a peaceful protestor, which I have been multiple times in the past, how do you expect me to extinguish the activities of a bunch of thugs with clubs and bricks?
Disperse. The cowards hide in the crowd. If hte crowd goes away, they are exposed. Then reform later and return to your protest.
Though, of course, easier said than done.
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I guess. Way easier said than done. Everyone shows up for a protest, those groups are large, not very hierarchical and amorphous. What would prevent the thugs from dispersing in lock-step with the peaceful people?
There are no easy answers. My point is that peaceful protestors don't have the capacity to deal with them, to restrict them, or to displace from them for the most part and that shouldn't tar the peaceful protestors at all. I wouldn't expect them to silence their right to be heard by the actions of either the police or thugs.
Well sure, lots of things are difficult to do, but that doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile. Look at this thread alone to see how little support even the peaceful protestors have amongst a fairly normal group of Canadians. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of that has to do with the actions of the 'morons'.
Well sure, lots of things are difficult to do, but that doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile. Look at this thread alone to see how little support even the peaceful protestors have amongst a fairly normal group of Canadians. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of that has to do with the actions of the 'morons'.
What do you suggest the peaceful protesters do?
If the police can't stop them how can an unarmed peaceful civilian stop them?
I don't doubt that most people who participate in protest marches and demonstrations are peaceful and not troublemakers. However, as I have already stated, I believe the organizers of these groups want the violence to happen. They get no publicity otherwise. They never condemn or rule out violent tactics prior to the event and only denounce it after the damage is done. In this example, the organizer basically says the police will be to blame if any violence occurs. Their hypocrisy is pretty blatant. I think most people see through it.
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They could start by publicly denouncing them - that would be a decent start. They could actively seek to work WITH the police to eradicate that problem rather than tacitly approving it.
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Everyone saw what happened when police do nothing and let "protesters" protest.
I think its likely that after those incidents an order was given from on high that it will no longer be tolerated and instead of bending over one way they over reacted the other way. Its not something that should be ignored but its very convienient for people on the sidelines who arent in that line of work to comment from the sidelines.
As per the journalist with no creds. Honestly if you are from a different country to report on news and you havent even bothered to get the right credentials, how is someone from Ontario supposed to know or care who the Guardian is. Its like saying "I am a free lance journalist with the Calgary Sun please let me report on what is going on in India." I am also surprised in a day with video cameras in every cell phone that no video of this or of the crowd was taken. We also havent heard from the cop in question, maybe he recognized the guy from a protest earlier where he was a disturber (not saying he was but we are only getting one side here).
Also, no offence to OTV reporter but who cares if someone gives the peace sign or not.
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What a bunch of stupid freaking hippies. They have absolutely nothing better to do than stir stuff up. Don't they have jobs? Don't they have better things to do with their time? Nothing but a bunch of losers.
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I love how some of the anti-protesters always make arguments that are convenient.
I havn't heard anyone who was "anti-protester" because they didn't approve of political protest.
I do question the relationship they have with their violent friends and how they seem to desire to make the police their enemy. I'm also don't support their political positions and am annoyed that because they are seen as victims nobody is questioning what they are protesting.
They could start by publicly denouncing them - that would be a decent start. They could actively seek to work WITH the police to eradicate that problem rather than tacitly approving it.
If you think there is a global tacit approval of the black bloc, then you have never been an activist. They are a scourge toward those wanting to activate change. When there is violence, the news doesn't cover the issues that the activists want presented, they cover the violence. In the Vancouver Olympic protest threads I told the story of the Hare Krishnas, one of the most pacifist groups on the planet, getting into a throw down with the Black Bloc because they were pissed off with the antics of the bandana wearing asshats co-opting their peaceful protest.
I can tell you that all of my training has been in passive resistance, and the groups I have belonged to have strongly condemned the use of violence.
For the guy above that said "Make Poverty History" is like "Make it Sunny Everyday", nothing could be further from the truth. I wear my "Make Poverty History" wristband every day only to promote others to act... I personally have two foster children through Plan Canada, have donated large sums to Engineers Without Borders, have attended and aided many MPH events and locally I have volunteered with food banks and soup kitchens. Are you saying what I am doing is horribly, horribly wrong because it's a futile endeavor?
MPH stands for:
- Doubling Canada's foreign aide to .7% of GDP, completing the promise we made to the world under Nobel Peace Prize winning Lester B. Pearson.
- Ensuring that the terms of Bill C-293 are carried out. It was a wonderful bill that was carried UNANIMOUSLY in the house and now it is a matter of seeing that the government is held to meeting the statutes of the bill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develop...untability_Act
- In 1989 the Liberal party, including Chretien, promised they would end child poverty in Canada by 2000. That's long past and they had ample time in power to do something, but failed. MPH is calling for a renewed effort by the federal government to aide provincial and local governments and NGOs to work together on a national strategy to ensure that all children have an equal footing to start their lives.
Now I realize that's the kind of stuff that certain people here are against. Calgaryborn has outright said this kind of stuff costs too much. Personally, I look at the suffering of others here and around the world call for action, damn the cost. Someone I can't see Pearson's .7% bankrupting the nation.
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