Obama Administration Announces Massive Piracy Crackdown

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Azure

Even if Photon has my IP address, what exactly is he going to do with it?

He can only find out what part of the country I'm from.

In order to get a name or any specific details he needs to contact my ISP. Who will tell him to screw off unless he has a court order saying that the information needs to be turned over.

And in order to get a court document you have to find a judge crazy enough to actually go along with this 'privacy' scheme.

photon is a really nice guy, so I doubt he would do any more than put donkey porn into the "donkey and snake fetish" folder that already exists on your C drive.

The rest is what this law will enable the government (or copyright holders maybe?) to do. ie get information about you from your ISP to pursue the matter in civil court.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Azure

I can't exactly remember names right now, but a while back I was searching for Texas 'music'...and I couldn't find a single place on the internet that sold the cds.

Granted, Amazon does pretty good, but I'm stuck buying CDs. What if I want 'one' song?

Then don't expect to listen to music from the Zimbabwe national choir.

Your only defense is that I only want one song from this super obscure band but not the whole CD so you are forced to download it illegally rather than pay 20 bucks to get it shipped to you?

Just because you don't want to pay an inflated price for an object it doesn't mean you can steal it. If I went into Canadian tire and wanted to buy a single butt-end connector for 14 gauge wiring but they only sold them in packages of 10, would I be justified in ripping open the package and putting it in my pocket? No, I would buy all 10 and have them for later.

Or are you really just trying to justify stealing them because it would be a little more inconvenient to have to find a seller on ebay and wait a week for it to ship to you?

[Azure]

I never said it justifies stealing them. I said it sure as hell doesn't help their cause if a lot of music isn't available from 'mainstream' sites.

So what if I like Zimbabwe choir music? If there are illegal copies available, then there should be legal copies available as well.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Just because you don't want to pay an inflated price for an object it doesn't mean you can steal it. If I went into Canadian tire and wanted to buy a single butt-end connector for 14 gauge wiring but they only sold them in packages of 10, would I be justified in ripping open the package and putting it in my pocket? No, I would buy all 10 and have them for later.

Or are you really just trying to justify stealing them because it would be a little more inconvenient to have to find a seller on ebay and wait a week for it to ship to you?

Not the same thing though, you aren't even setting foot in the store and all packages are unopened, no sales are lost. For this to be equivalent, you'd need a way to "copy" the connectors for yourself, without spending anything.

Your example is exactly what iTunes is.....buy 1 of 10 connectors if that's all you want. The people that should be getting hit hard with this are the ones who steal from the production/record companies and then create the copies for the masses. All of us still pay for bandwidth and the hardware to acquire the copies, legit or not.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Then don't expect to listen to music from the Zimbabwe national choir.

Your only defense is that I only want one song from this super obscure band but not the whole CD so you are forced to download it illegally rather than pay 20 bucks to get it shipped to you?

Just because you don't want to pay an inflated price for an object it doesn't mean you can steal it. If I went into Canadian tire and wanted to buy a single butt-end connector for 14 gauge wiring but they only sold them in packages of 10, would I be justified in ripping open the package and putting it in my pocket? No, I would buy all 10 and have them for later.

Or are you really just trying to justify stealing them because it would be a little more inconvenient to have to find a seller on ebay and wait a week for it to ship to you?

Not even close to the same thing. If you went to Canadian Tire, saw that they sold them in packages of ten and then went home and made your own based on their patented design then it would be the same.

Again, it is not stealing.

Taking a book from the library is stealing.

Copying a book in the library, copyright violation.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Anyone in a band knows how music works and doesn't care that you got their music for free. It's the culture. If a band is hanging out listening to music, and the guitarist says to the drummer, "Hey I really like this." The guitarist isn't going to respond with "That's great! Let's get you down to the record store right now and buy you a copy."

.

Anyone in a band? Maybe some musicians have that attitude. It wouldn't be hard to find several bands who don't particularly like you acquiring their music without paying for it.

[GGG]

I agree that creators of content should be compensated. My problem is how slow the industry is allow us to watch content in multiple formats.

For example if I want to watch TV on the way to work on the train that I recorded on a PVR last night I can't. I have paid for this content to be sent to my house and have been conferred a license for private viewing. Now what difference does it make if I watch it on my big TV or a laptop or a phone.

The industry refuses to understand how individuals use content. Radio Stations on the other hand have done a real good job of having everything available for download so I don't have to Pirate their product.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh don't we love big government.

'Thought' crime. Gotta love it.

It also implements an interesting provision called "imminent infringement", which allows the government to charge people who they think might be about to infringe with a civil offense (for example if you searched "torrent daft punk"). This is among the first official "thought crime" provisions to be proposed by the U.S. government.

I don't know if you are American or not Azure, but get used to this kind of stuff.
I think the Constitution will continue to be shot to hell in the coming years....

..especially if people like Elena Kagan get into the Supreme Court..

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Not the same thing though, you aren't even setting foot in the store and all packages are unopened, no sales are lost. For this to be equivalent, you'd need a way to "copy" the connectors for yourself, without spending anything.

So no one who ever would have spent money on a song/cd/movie/dvd ever downloaded it instead?

Wow that's a nice delusion.

You cannot deny that the availability of free media online has reduced the demand for music and cost the companies who make that media money. I didn't make my post to preach the evils of downloading music though, I was simply pointing out the very obvious flaw in the logic of the posters I was responding to.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Azure

I can't exactly remember names right now, but a while back I was searching for Texas 'music'...and I couldn't find a single place on the internet that sold the cds.

Granted, Amazon does pretty good, but I'm stuck buying CDs. What if I want 'one' song?

What if I change my argument after getting called on my bullpoop?

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Rathji

So no one who ever would have spent money on a song/cd/movie/dvd ever downloaded it instead?

Wow that's a nice delusion.

You cannot deny that the availability of free media online has reduced the demand for music and cost the companies who make that media money. I didn't make my post to preach the evils of downloading music though, I was simply pointing out the very obvious flaw in the logic of the posters I was responding to.

We can try.

Interestingly, the statements seem to fly in the face of a recent Government Accountability Office study released to U.S. Congress earlier this year, which concluded that there is virtually no evidence for the claimed million dollar losses by the entertainment industry. That study suggested that piracy could even benefit the economy.

From the original article

[Azure]

Which would go in hand with a study done a few years back that also said piracy helps the economy AND the music industry.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Azure

In order to get a name or any specific details he needs to contact my ISP. Who will tell him to screw off unless he has a court order saying that the information needs to be turned over.

And in order to get a court document you have to find a judge crazy enough to actually go along with this 'privacy' scheme.

That's true in Canada, but no so in the United States. The RIAA has requested and received personal information from ISP's thousands of times. The ISP then routinely sends the end user a letter outlining the copyright infringement (usually through bit torrent) and either terminates their Internet service, or warns them that future violations will result in canceling of service.

The point is, the ISP turned over private information without a court order. This doesn't sit well with me, but it occurs daily in the U.S.

The whole piracy issue to me is about companies finding a business model that works. Take iTunes for example. It has become wildly popular, and if it hasn't already, it will eventually eclipse brick and mortar sales of music. You can never, ever stop piracy, but the goal is to make it simple and economical enough that most people simply won't bother. The key is making it simple. If the experience of the pirated product is better than the paying version, you have a problem. See the endless FORCED previews on Blu Ray and DVDs. This is the kind of thing that drives customers away.

[Regorium]

Slightly related, but I do have many methods of downloading retail PC games and yes, I can absolutely say 100% that I would not have purchased most of the games I tried. If they were not free, I would never have played them and enjoyed them for even one second.

With the advent of new distribution platforms, like Steam, I have even less reason to download games that I want to try, because they add a lot of value in being able to DL my game anywhere and having it all organized and updated. Perhaps the music industry needs to see this, and innovate to retain customers.

Basically, they need to accept the fact that people can get your music for free. So the ultimate goal should be to find ways to add value to a legitimate purchase which makes it so that people have an incentive to buy it rather than pirating it.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Rathji

e-bay, amazon.com or any other source of purchasing a physical CD online does not have any of these CDs for sale? Could you contact a store that sells the physical copy and get them to mail them?

Or is this band that doesn't sell CDs at any store in the world? were they killed after they recorded their one demo song and it is their legacy to have this one song being torrented around the world?

You are really grasping at straws here.

Give me an example of one band.

If you want an example, I dare you to find a new copy(either e-copy or the real thing) of the Latterman/Nakatomi Plaza Split from 2001 anywhere - either online or from a physical store. I would also dare you to walk into a music store and find a Battle!, Life Long Tragedy, Sojourner, Withdrawl, or Bitter End albums/records. Contrary to popular, major label music, many non-mainstream releases have limited runs that make it impossible to get once all copies are sold(unless you find a used copy). For example if you take a semi-popular, now defunct hardcore band like Sinking Ships. They are big enough that their last record/album was re-pressed...but the third run is only 328 copies. Have fun finding that album five years from now without resorting to torrents. Two weeks ago at a show the vocalist from the band Continuance encouraged people to check out their music via downloading because "they don't care". It's about the message, connecting with others, doing what you love, etc.

The main brunt of people who download are the ones who either listen to the album/record to make sure its worth buying, or the people who would never have bought it anyways. Especially for the latter, the band would have likely never made a dime off that person anyways. At the very least the band is getting some exposure. Maybe that person will recommend or bash the album to friend, maybe they'll get off their ass and go to a show, or maybe they'll buy a piece of merch. Attention is a currency. If you take away downloading you're going to lose thousands, if not hundreds of thousands or millions, of people who might not ever check out that band.

The recording industry needs to take it's head out of it's bum and evolve with the current generation. I don't know how they plan on catching up, but tbh I am content with the current system...in Canada at least.

Plus, who cares if a crap band like Metro Station loses a couple thousand record sales...?

[Shnabdabber]

I research bands, find free samples of their music or songs, and if I like the band I buy a CD. Can't find it in stores... Order it online. Can't find it online... Try to contact publisher/label. Still no go... Try contacting the artist themselves. Sometimes you will be surprised.

Boogerz is right though. Sometimes only so many physical copies are released, and then after time it becomes next to impossible to find. Hell, I have some
metal albums that were only repressed in Japan, and you need an interpreter when readin g the inner notes... But the music is still there.
As a musician I don't mind if someone heard (and owns) my music from downloading. I still have my day job anyways and my making music has nothing to do with making money. Although it's nice. I will support the musicians I like though by buying and physically owning their music. If I love the music, then it's in my best interest to support the band as far as I'm concerned.
And what's with the "what if I only like one song off their album" excuse? Either suck it up and buy the album, or find bands who can make a solid album.