Iceland passes gay marriage law in unanimous vote

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm startled by how many people care so deeply about gay marriage.

If y'all would care less, gay people would have been able to get married years ago.

Exactly, those stupid Black Americans should have kept quiet and not took to the streets to fight for their equal rights in America, obviously keeping quiet and hidden is the key to victory in earning rights for a group.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Thor

Would you consider the religious book whichever you adhere to be divine in origin or written by men and therefore flawed.

I don't believe you can just say its both in the same book, its an either or proposition.

Theologans for example in Christianity routinely agree that the old/new testaments are not divine, they are written by men and often a number of different writers. They contradict routinely, say outrageous things that most people today religious or not would find deeply offensive.

What I'm trying to say is why trust a book from 2000yrs ago or whatever your book is, when its written by flawed humans in a time where slavery was not only normal but had the blessing of the bible in terms of telling people how to handle their slaves.

The amount of nonsense in the bible, Koran and other holy books is incredible; I read them and wonder how its possible people believe this bunk but I find the vast majority of my friends who do haven't read them or just know what they know from hearing things at church which their pastor/priest/imam have decided to talk about with them.

Either way, if you give power to one thing from a religious text concerning this issue you should give all of the text the same seriousness, including all the stuff you yourself would laugh at or cringe at, which is often the case.

Agreed 110%. How can you pick and choose what you want out of the bible when its supposedly the "word of God"?

Not to mention the guys who wrote it believed the world to be flat. Your average fourth grader is probably better educated then the people who wrote the bible.

The bearded man living in the sky, looking down upon us is shaking his head at how stupid the world is.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by icecube

Not to mention the guys who wrote it believed the world to be flat. Your average fourth grader is probably better educated then the people who wrote the bible.

you do realize that at the time that most of the major books of the bible were written, the world was considered to be flat. I find your statement on the educational level fairly silly as well since at the time the people that wrote the books were probably highly educated and highly literate at the time. You can't take whats in the bible and compare it to today because it wasn't written by todays standards in terms of what we know about the world.

Back then theological studies explained a lot of what they felt happened.

I go back to Noah's Arc where there was a newspaper story about a massive flood at the time, since the world wasn't quite so big, it was probably fairly easy for the writer to believe that the whole world was flooded in some way of the other.

I'm pretty sure in a thousand years, people will look back at what was writted today, whether based on science or religion and wonder if our whole race wasn't genuninely ######ed.

Originally Posted by icecube

The bearded man living in the sky, looking down upon us is shaking his head at how stupid the world is.

I prefer to think that he's up there watching ESPN and googling his works on the internet and laughing at how much of it is wrong or mis-interpreted.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

you do realize that at the time that most of the major books of the bible were written, the world was considered to be flat. I find your statement on the educational level fairly silly as well since at the time the people that wrote the books were probably highly educated and highly literate at the time. You can't take whats in the bible and compare it to today because it wasn't written by todays standards in terms of what we know about the world.

Back then theological studies explained a lot of what they felt happened.

I go back to Noah's Arc where there was a newspaper story about a massive flood at the time, since the world wasn't quite so big, it was probably fairly easy for the writer to believe that the whole world was flooded in some way of the other.

I'm pretty sure in a thousand years, people will look back at what was writted today, whether based on science or religion and wonder if our whole race wasn't genuninely ######ed.

That's too good to not be intentional

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Exactly, those stupid Black Americans should have kept quiet and not took to the streets to fight for their equal rights in America, obviously keeping quiet and hidden is the key to victory in earning rights for a group.

Nobody is saying that.

However if the Black American's had paraded down the streets in tattered clothing, while carrying cotton and being whipped by other Black in White Face makeup it would have probably not helped their cause.

Instead Doctor King created a simple movement that called attention to their plight for equality.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

Would you consider the religious book whichever you adhere to be divine in origin or written by men and therefore flawed.

I don't believe you can just say its both in the same book, its an either or proposition.

Theologans for example in Christianity routinely agree that the old/new testaments are not divine, they are written by men and often a number of different writers. They contradict routinely, say outrageous things that most people today religious or not would find deeply offensive.

What I'm trying to say is why trust a book from 2000yrs ago or whatever your book is, when its written by flawed humans in a time where slavery was not only normal but had the blessing of the bible in terms of telling people how to handle their slaves.

The amount of nonsense in the bible, Koran and other holy books is incredible; I read them and wonder how its possible people believe this bunk but I find the vast majority of my friends who do haven't read them or just know what they know from hearing things at church which their pastor/priest/imam have decided to talk about with them.

Either way, if you give power to one thing from a religious text concerning this issue you should give all of the text the same seriousness, including all the stuff you yourself would laugh at or cringe at, which is often the case.

Meh.

Gay marriage is all about the rights of the people, and anyone with an ounce of common sense would realize that because those rights are controlled by the government, and the government should be separate from the church, its pretty stupid to apply Biblical teachings to how a government should function.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

Exactly, those stupid Black Americans should have kept quiet and not took to the streets to fight for their equal rights in America, obviously keeping quiet and hidden is the key to victory in earning rights for a group.

Except that isn't what I'm saying.

The general population during those times cared so deeply about their divine right to be in 'control'....that they took away the basic right of freedom from someone who was just a different color.

Course, when they did that, absolutely people should stand up and fight back. Especially on an issue as black and white as that.

And like CC said, they went about it differently.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by icecube

Not to mention the guys who wrote it believed the world to be flat. Your average fourth grader is probably better educated then the people who wrote the bible.

Indeed.

We should start burning historical writings of any kind and instead start studying the writings of our average 4th graders.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I go back to Noah's Arc where there was a newspaper story about a massive flood at the time, since the world wasn't quite so big, it was probably fairly easy for the writer to believe that the whole world was flooded in some way of the other.

Not to be a smarty-pants, but a newspaper story thousands of years before Christ?

Um.... probably not. Newspapers were invented in the early 17th century.

In any case, I take your point to be one that the worldview of the human beings who originally wrote the stories that make up the old testament was benighted and narrow, as a function of history. I agree; and if that's the case, I fail to see any reason why we should believe anything that those people had to say about anything, let alone about what rights should be extended to whom, or who should be wearing assless chaps in public and who shouldn't.

I think our society needs more assless chaps, not less. Down with spandex shorts and up with assless chaps!

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Down with spandex shorts and up with assless chaps!

Bigot.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

Bigot.

If the assless chaps fit....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Not to be a smarty-pants, but a newspaper story thousands of years before Christ?

Um.... probably not. Newspapers were invented in the early 17th century.

Nope, it was fairly recent, I posted it in one of the bible debates pages befoer.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

In any case, I take your point to be one that the worldview of the human beings who originally wrote the stories that make up the old testament was benighted and narrow, as a function of history. I agree; and if that's the case, I fail to see any reason why we should believe anything that those people had to say about anything, let alone about what rights should be extended to whom, or who should be wearing assless chaps in public and who shouldn't.

Its not up to you to decide what people should and shouldn't believe in. Besides, I think most moderate religious folks don't believe in biblical verse in a literal sense, but choose to take an interpretation of the lessons in each story or book.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I think our society needs more assless chaps, not less. Down with spandex shorts and up with assless chaps!

How about down with both of them. It takes a pretty awesome person to pull off a$$less chaps, and from the news stories that I saw last year on the GPP in Toronto, those weren't the ones wearin em. And of course I'm talking about hot chicks wearing them.

[valo403]

Since we're on the topic of chaps can someone answer a question for me?

Aren't all chaps by definition a$$less? Wouldn't non-a$$less chaps just be pants? Or are there full a$$ed chaps that are only crotchless? I assume those are even more offensive.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Of course I've never been mariginalized because I'm straight but that's because that's how I believe God intended it in the first place. In the Bible, it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

It also wasn't Adam and Shenequa, or Jamal and Phan... don't even get me started on Joydeep and Lafonda.

Gay marriage shouldn't be the issue of the day in government, we should be looking to repeal mixed race marriage first! It's not natural! Adam and Eve were white!

[Bill Bumface]

^ Well we have a lot of stained glass and illustrated evidence saying Jesus is white, so maybe the Palestinians are right about the Israelis and they are just imposters. The people who actually should inhabit that land fled to America with Joeseph Smith, when Jesus came to America in the 1800s.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Meh.

Gay marriage is all about the rights of the people, and anyone with an ounce of common sense would realize that because those rights are controlled by the government, and the government should be separate from the church, its pretty stupid to apply Biblical teachings to how a government should function.

Agreed but lets face reality, Religion is pretty much the sole obstacle to equal marriage/civil rights all over the world. Religious people elect and vote for those people who make laws, those who make laws in those nations still thinking being gay is a sin are likely religious as well.

To suggest this is a battle of government separation of church and state is naive dude, the battle is the strongly held convictions of the electorate who vote the buffoons in America into power to protect their narrow/outdated bronze age beliefs.

The government shouldn't but they do, and you're not gonna win a fight to get this turned into a different debate, because logic isn't the champion in this battle.

Originally Posted by Azure

Except that isn't what I'm saying.

The general population during those times cared so deeply about their divine right to be in 'control'....that they took away the basic right of freedom from someone who was just a different color.

Course, when they did that, absolutely people should stand up and fight back. Especially on an issue as black and white as that.

And like CC said, they went about it differently.

So the divine right they hold now over a people they deem sinful is deeply different in what way?

This issue is pretty much the same, if people are born and have no control over their sexuality, which more and more science is telling us; then there is no justification to not give those people the same rights as we give to heterosexual people. Its a battle of rights vs holding on to outdated and dogmatic beliefs.

So we knock them for some extravagant displays while they are a minority within the parades, and ignore the big obvious problem that they are having these parades for, inequality, intolerance, human rights..

Its sickening to hear stories of people told they can't see their dying partner in the US because they are not legally married, denying basic human rights to a group of people because you like a book and you think its super special is ridiculous.

If it was possible to deem Marriage devoid of religious dogma and allow the government to give full rights to people and not administer it, but thats a pipe dream to say the least, so we fight the battle on the battle ground on which it exists.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Nobody is saying that.

However if the Black American's had paraded down the streets in tattered clothing, while carrying cotton and being whipped by other Black in White Face makeup it would have probably not helped their cause.

Instead Doctor King created a simple movement that called attention to their plight for equality.

We pretending it was all flowers and hugs, in this simple movement?

Lets not kid ourselves, riots, deaths, immense suffering and injustice was brought upon the black rights movement, within that black rights movement was also a harsh and hardcore element including the black panthers and other such small groups which did not represent the majority of the protests.

Not oddly enough back then the white people/media focused on the violence, the shock of things the extreme parts of the movement said and tried to make it seem as if this was the norm.

Today its the same, we laugh about it but the vast majority of these parades are tame and might contain a thing or two that could be considered risqué, considering we have mardigras and all kinds of parades all over the country including Caribbean festivals which have lots of risqué and shockingly in your face heterosexual sexuality..

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its not up to you to decide what people should and shouldn't believe in. Besides, I think most moderate religious folks don't believe in biblical verse in a literal sense, but choose to take an interpretation of the lessons in each story or book.

that's the problem, religious folk pick and choose the verses that they'll hold true for whatever holy book they read, and conveniently ignore the rest. then they hold those verses that just happen to fit in with their pre-defined notion of how things should be as the unflappable word of god. that "interpretation" argument only comes to light when someone tries calling them on their hypocrisy of taking the bible as anything other than fiction

[Azure]

And here we go with the 'religion' bashing.

I'm out. Good thread though.

[Bownesian]

There are a lot of straw men and appeals to authority on both sides of this debate. To sum up some of the of some of the pro-gay marriage arguments presented in a short period here:

religiousness (and therefore opposition to gay marriage) = hypocritical, ignorant, inconsistent, racist

It's pretty easy to scapegoat the group that is "them" and not "we", isn't it?

I think the world would be a better place if people showed a little more empathy for the people around us.