Iceland passes gay marriage law in unanimous vote

[nemanja2306]

A marriage to me is a union between a man and a woman so I'm against gay marriage, gay parades and such... I have no problems with homosexuals though, I don't care if someone is gay or not, it's inside that counts. I realize it's something you can't change and it's something you can't change but if you're gay I don't see why you feel the need to go on the street saying "I'm gay", waving flags, taking of shirts, making out.... I'm straight and I don't go out on the street "I'm straight and I'm pround". That's something I'll never understand. :/

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

A marriage to me is a union between a man and a woman so I'm against gay marriage, gay parades and such... I have no problems with homosexuals though, I don't care if someone is gay or not, it's inside that counts. I realize it's something you can't change and it's something you can't change but if you're gay I don't see why you feel the need to go on the street saying "I'm gay", waving flags, taking of shirts, making out.... I'm straight and I don't go out on the street "I'm straight and I'm pround". That's something I'll never understand. :/

Normally I would agree. I'm pretty much a proponent of keep it in the bed room. I don't like some of the freak show aspects of the gay pride parades.

However to give credit it has certainly pushed the Gay rights push to the front in terms of getting governments to look really hard at the Gay Marriage issue.

I'm also of the approach that if you don't like seeing guys walking around naked or in assless chaps you merely don't have to go.

Thats why I say I don't care too much one way or another. I can think of bigger issues right at the moment that could use more governmental focus.

[Thor]

A marriage to me is a union between a man and a woman so I'm against gay marriage, gay parades and such... I have no problems with homosexuals though, I don't care if someone is gay or not, it's inside that counts. I realize it's something you can't change and it's something you can't change but if you're gay I don't see why you feel the need to go on the street saying "I'm gay", waving flags, taking of shirts, making out.... I'm straight and I don't go out on the street "I'm straight and I'm pround". That's something I'll never understand. :/

So they are born this way, and you don't deserve rights that hetero couples receive in marriage?

Are you for/against Civil unions with equal rights to what marriage rights give?

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Thor

So they are born this way, and you don't deserve rights that hetero couples receive in marriage?

Are you for/against Civil unions with equal rights to what marriage rights give?

It has nothing to do with rights and/or government... To me, it's about religion and God, and forgive me, but a marriage between a man and a man is not natural to me.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

A marriage to me is a union between a man and a woman so I'm against gay marriage, gay parades and such... I have no problems with homosexuals though, I don't care if someone is gay or not, it's inside that counts. I realize it's something you can't change and it's something you can't change but if you're gay I don't see why you feel the need to go on the street saying "I'm gay", waving flags, taking of shirts, making out.... I'm straight and I don't go out on the street "I'm straight and I'm pround". That's something I'll never understand. :/

So your fine with the gay part, just not the parade part? I can only understand that if for some reason the parades actually impact your life, like if they ruin your commute due to street closures or you get flat tires afterwards from left behind nipple rings.

And the reason you don't feel the need to go out on the street declaring that you're straight is that you've never been marginalized for being that way.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

It has nothing to do with rights and/or government... To me, it's about religion and God, and forgive me, but a marriage between a man and a man is not natural to me.

Doesn't a civil union remove the whole religion and god aspect from the equation? Then it's strictly about rights and government, which it seems should be fine with you, no?

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

It has nothing to do with rights and/or government... To me, it's about religion and God, and forgive me, but a marriage between a man and a man is not natural to me.

Would you be fine with it if the government only recognized civil unions, and marriages were left to churches to grant to whoever they feel is appropriate? If marriage is about religion and God, I don't see why the government should be involved with it. If it's about more than that, I can't see why the government should grant it to some consenting adults while denying it to others.

[frege64]

So just to clarify to the "keep it in the bedroom" crowd- you must be in a state of constantly being offended, because if there's one thing that characterizes heterosexual culture, it's its complete inability to "keep it in the bedroom." You don't have "straight pride parades" because EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY IS STRAIGHT PRIDE. As a gay person you're bombarded with images of heterosexuality every day of your life. Every. Single. Day. So one day a year you trot out the camp nonsense to be visible- one day. And you have all these non-self-aware imbeciles saying that WE are the ones putting it out in public when straight people parade their sexuality nonstop.

And if you don't see the straight parade, it's because you're blind.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

A marriage to me is a union between a man and a woman so I'm against gay marriage, gay parades and such... I have no problems with homosexuals though, I don't care if someone is gay or not, it's inside that counts. I realize it's something you can't change and it's something you can't change but if you're gay I don't see why you feel the need to go on the street saying "I'm gay", waving flags, taking of shirts, making out.... I'm straight and I don't go out on the street "I'm straight and I'm pround". That's something I'll never understand. :/

Let's test how much you really have "no problems with homosexuals" with a few questions:

Do you think they should be treated as any other couple when it comes to holding hands in public?
Do you think they should be treated as any other couple when it comes to booking hotels/B&Bs?
Do you think they should be treated as each others' family if their partner is sick in a hospital?
Do you think they should be allowed to raise children from a previous relationship?
Do you think they should be able to adopt/artificially conceive/raise surrogate children?
Do you think they should be treated as a (step)parent of children they do have together as far as dealing with those kids in schools?
Do you think they should enjoy spousal benefits? (taxation, pensions, insurance etc.)

Gays and Lesbians were denied all of these rights in Canada until the Supreme Court ruled that these are basic human rights that cannot be denied to these people. These rights are denied all over the world because of people who do have problems with homosexuals and people who "have no problems with homosexuals" but don't think they should be allowed to show affection in public or share the benefits and legal protection of marriage.

That is why they have parades - to fight for their rights, to fight for others whose rights are not protected, and to tell people who are in that minority that they are part of a community and not alone.

[Reaper]

Man, I am getting so tired of hearing bigots hiding behind things like religion or statements like "I'm not against gays but I'm against gay marriage."

It's time to move out of the bronze age and be welcomed to the twenty first century.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by frege64

So just to clarify to the "keep it in the bedroom" crowd- you must be in a state of constantly being offended, because if there's one thing that characterizes heterosexual culture, it's its complete inability to "keep it in the bedroom." You don't have "straight pride parades" because EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY IS STRAIGHT PRIDE. As a gay person you're bombarded with images of heterosexuality every day of your life. Every. Single. Day. So one day a year you trot out the camp nonsense to be visible- one day. And you have all these non-self-aware imbeciles saying that WE are the ones putting it out in public when straight people parade their sexuality nonstop.

And if you don't see the straight parade, it's because you're blind.

When I state the whole keep it in the bedroom thing. I'm talking about the fact that I don't think there's a need for some of the imagry at the parades. I actually think they do some harm to the gay rights movement when they parade around naked in dog collars, or in ass less chaps or some of the other appearances.

While you state that you talk about straight people parading their sexuality nonstop, I'm curious what you mean about that, because I don't see it in the same way?

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Would you be fine with it if the government only recognized civil unions, and marriages were left to churches to grant to whoever they feel is appropriate? If marriage is about religion and God, I don't see why the government should be involved with it. If it's about more than that, I can't see why the government should grant it to some consenting adults while denying it to others.

Civil Unions == Marriage in Canada

The government of Canada only recognizes "civil" Marriages, not religious ones. If you get "married" in a church, you aren't Married before the law until you fill out the correct paperwork and swear the oaths before a licensed marriage commissioner.

As for religion being a part of it, there are religions that do perform same sex marriages, including (but not exclusively) the United Church of Canada. There is no freedom of religion argument that holds any water for an outright ban of Marriages.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When I state the whole keep it in the bedroom thing. I'm talking about the fact that I don't think there's a need for some of the imagry at the parades. I actually think they do some harm to the gay rights movement when they parade around naked in dog collars, or in ass less chaps or some of the other appearances.

While you state that you talk about straight people parading their sexuality nonstop, I'm curious what you mean about that, because I don't see it in the same way?

I expect that Pride Parades will get less important in the future in Canada the same way we don't see May Day parades for workers' rights like was seen when those rights were still be being fought for.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

It has nothing to do with rights and/or government... To me, it's about religion and God, and forgive me, but a marriage between a man and a man is not natural to me.

Well that's not the debate. No one has ever said that these laws are, or should be about forcing priests/churches/whatever to perform marriages for gays. What they mean is that gays can get civil marriages, and receive all the same rights as everyone else.

So where do you stand on that?
What about straight people getting married in civil ceremonies? Do you have objections to that?

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by valo403

So your fine with the gay part, just not the parade part? I can only understand that if for some reason the parades actually impact your life, like if they ruin your commute due to street closures or you get flat tires afterwards from left behind nipple rings.

And the reason you don't feel the need to go out on the street declaring that you're straight is that you've never been marginalized for being that way.

Yes. I don't mind that someone is gay, I know people who are and it really doesn't bother me. But I don't see why they feel the need to go out on the street and hold a parade. Like another poster said, they only harm their "image", lack of better word, with it.

Of course I've never been mariginalized because I'm straight but that's because that's how I believe God intended it in the first place. In the Bible, it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Like I said, and I stress this point very much, I have no problem with gay people. Of course, NOBODY should be discrimnated just because their gay. Should they be able to walk down the street holding hands? Of course. So yes, they should be able to have civil rights as the rest of us do. I'm not disputing that. However, and this is my opinion regardless of what the rest of you feel like, when it comes to marriage, to me marriage is a sanctity between a man and a woman.

I should also point out, I'm a different religion than most of you.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by frege64

So just to clarify to the "keep it in the bedroom" crowd- you must be in a state of constantly being offended, because if there's one thing that characterizes heterosexual culture, it's its complete inability to "keep it in the bedroom." You don't have "straight pride parades" because EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY IS STRAIGHT PRIDE. As a gay person you're bombarded with images of heterosexuality every day of your life. Every. Single. Day. So one day a year you trot out the camp nonsense to be visible- one day. And you have all these non-self-aware imbeciles saying that WE are the ones putting it out in public when straight people parade their sexuality nonstop.

And if you don't see the straight parade, it's because you're blind.

That's because, and I REALLY don't mean to offend gay people, heterosexuality is considered normal. Is it not? And there is a difference between kissing my girlfriend on the street and going out waving flags, singing, taking your shirts off, touching and yelling: "I'M GAY AND I'M PROUD!"

[Thor]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Yes. I don't mind that someone is gay, I know people who are and it really doesn't bother me. But I don't see why they feel the need to go out on the street and hold a parade. Like another poster said, they only harm their "image", lack of better word, with it.

Of course I've never been mariginalized because I'm straight but that's because that's how I believe God intended it in the first place. In the Bible, it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Like I said, and I stress this point very much, I have no problem with gay people. Of course, NOBODY should be discrimnated just because their gay. Should they be able to walk down the street holding hands? Of course. So yes, they should be able to have civil rights as the rest of us do. I'm not disputing that. However, and this is my opinion regardless of what the rest of you feel like, when it comes to marriage, to me marriage is a sanctity between a man and a woman.

I should also point out, I'm a different religion than most of you.

But you seem to indicate people are born gay, something I agree with; if so why does your God whichever one you picked, create gay people only to consider them sinful or against nature?

Marriage as much as people want to pretend its an institution from religion is something that predates any modern religion and is/has been changed and often was more about property/ownership than anything else.

As for the parade thing, its like has been mentioned before; groups that face discrimination and suffering at the hands of any other group typically protest or hit the streets; much like labor groups, black rights groups, etc..

Give it another 20-50yrs depending on when you live (probably 100yrs if you live in the USA or Saudi Arabia) and you won't see gay pride parades any more than you see straight pride parades.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Thor

But you seem to indicate people are born gay, something I agree with; if so why does your God whichever one you picked, create gay people only to consider them sinful or against nature?

Marriage as much as people want to pretend its an institution from religion is something that predates any modern religion and is/has been changed and often was more about property/ownership than anything else.

As for the parade thing, its like has been mentioned before; groups that face discrimination and suffering at the hands of any other group typically protest or hit the streets; much like labor groups, black rights groups, etc..

Give it another 20-50yrs depending on when you live (probably 100yrs if you live in the USA or Saudi Arabia) and you won't see gay pride parades any more than you see straight pride parades.

I'm Orthodox, don't why, but I feel I need to share that information. To answer your question I don't know. Why do bad things happen to good people? I don't know how it is for other people, but marriage to me is a religious institution. I truly believe that. And when I do get married, I'll do whatever it takes to keep my vows ( ie. not cheat, beat my wife...etc.). To me, it's more than paperwork.

For the parade thing, I think they do more harm than they do good, because they can actually harm their gay rights movement. People can get a wrong picture about gay people which I know is what they're not going for.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

That's because, and I REALLY don't mean to offend gay people, heterosexuality is considered normal. Is it not? And there is a difference between kissing my girlfriend on the street and going out waving flags, singing, taking your shirts off, touching and yelling: "I'M GAY AND I'M PROUD!"

Is it the touching part that really gets to you? For instance, I was walking down the street in Chelsea yesterday, NYC's largest gay community, and happened to pass a gay block party. There were tons of shirtless guys, sweating away in the 90 degree heat, drinking beers, dancing, touching etc. I even saw two guys making out on the sidewalk. Is that a problem?

To put it in perspective I'll tell you what I saw saturday. I went to a park/beach/beer gardens and saw the following: Shirtless dudes and women in bikinis, they were sweating away in the 90 degree heat, drinking beers, dancing, touching etc. I even saw one of the couples making out.

I'm really not seeing the difference.

And if you can't grasp the point behind the declaration of being gay and proud I don't know what to tell you. If you were a member of a marginalized, and often vilified, group that was fighting for acceptance I'd expect you'd be quite quick to declare your pride to be who you are.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

I'm Orthodox, don't why, but I feel I need to share that information. To answer your question I don't know. Why do bad things happen to good people? I don't know how it is for other people, but marriage to me is a religious institution. I truly believe that. And when I do get married, I'll do whatever it takes to keep my vows ( ie. not cheat, beat my wife...etc.). To me, it's more than paperwork.

For the parade thing, I think they do more harm than they do good, because they can actually harm their gay rights movement. People can get a wrong picture about gay people which I know is what they're not going for.

That's cool, and as I said earlier, no one is arguing that your church should have to marry a gay couple if they don't want to.

However why should that make you opposed to gay couples being allowed to have civil marriages?

If you're so opposed to gay marriages because you think marriage is a strictly religious instituion, then are you opposed to straight couples getting married in a strictly civil ceremony?