Insight in Bryan Cameron

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He's saying signing this player is as good as having a second round draft choice.

But that's not what he's saying. It may be what he means (and he might even be right) but what he said was that if he was available he'd be taken in the second round. That's a very unlikely scenario given the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Look if you are going to argue the merits of this player at least read the article linked on the first post of this thread so you know the facts.

Sigh... once again nobodies arguing the merits of the player. We're argueing about whether some GM would burn a top 60 pick on him if he were draftable. Oddly, we all (You, me, and Vlad) all seem to agree that none likely would.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Obviously not when you can get the player for free but that isn't what Sutter is saying. He's saying signing this player is as good as having a second round draft choice. It's like signing Giordano when he was a free agent, he's turned out as good as any 2nd round pick we've had.

Look if you are going to argue the merits of this player at least read the article linked on the first post of this thread so you know the facts.

To quote FDW:

Listening to a Sutter interview, he said if Cameron was in the draft he'd be a 2nd round pick. Interesting to hear that they must rate him quite highly.

That doesn't sound like "equivalent to having a 2nd round pick". That sounds like "if Cameron was eligible for the 2010 draft, he'd be a 2nd round pick".

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

But that's not what he's saying. It may be what he means (and he might even be right) but what he said was that if he was available he'd be taken in the second round. That's a very unlikely scenario given the circumstances.



Sigh... once again nobodies arguing the merits of the player. We're argueing about whether some GM would burn a top 60 pick on him if he were draftable. Oddly, we all (You, me, and Vlad) all seem to agree that none likely would.

No, I said that why would you use a draft choice on him when he's free for the signing. If he was draft eligible now, that's another question. If you want to play with the "If" question we can argue till our keyboards wear out. Pretty senseless discussion.

I told Vlad to read the article because he didn't know the facts about the players draft history and of course we're arguing the players merits. The question is, is he worth a 2nd rounder? That's about as black and white as it gets.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

of course we're arguing the players merits. The question is, is he worth a 2nd rounder?

We disagree on the point of the discussion then. But fine let's discuss his value...

Given what teams frequently receive in trade for a second round pick then he very clearly isn't worth a 2nd rounder. As a guy who only costs a reserve list and minor league money he's a great gamble, but I'd never give up an actual asset for him and I don't think anyone else (including Sutter) would either.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

We disagree on the point of the discussion then. But fine let's discuss his value...

Given what teams frequently receive in trade for a second round pick then he very clearly isn't worth a 2nd rounder. As a guy who only costs a reserve list and minor league money he's a great gamble, but I'd never give up an actual asset for him and I don't think anyone else (including Sutter) would either.

Yet there will probably be 5-6 teams this year who 2 years from now won't even sign their 2nd round pick to a professional contract.

Basing a players worth on what you think another team can get in trade for a 2nd round pick isn't really the way to determine if a player would go in the 2nd round or not. Ryan Wilson when he was signed wasn't given much in terms of fanfare. Today, he might be the most valuable asset of all the pieces that swapped teams between the original Leopold for Tanguay trade, and subsequent re-acquistion of Jordan Leopold.

Fact is that he is a player that at least one NHL team has deemed being worthy of a professional contract, and you can get him into the system right away. To a General Manager of a NHL team that may well be worth a second round pick. The biggest difference between a first to third round pick isn't always the talent, so much as the guy picked earlier is a guy you think can get to the NHL quicker.

[Weiser Wonder]

Maybe several teams wanted to sign him but the Flames were the team that put in the most leg work and got the deal done? Just because he's a free agent doesn't mean he wouldn't be somewhat coveted after a 50 goal year. Cameron had been talking to the Flames all season. Sounds like the Flames got in there early and picked up a good asset.

A lot of you guys made it sound that Cameron only came on board with the Flames when Wal mart rejected his application.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Maybe several teams wanted to sign him but the Flames were the team that put in the most leg work and got the deal done? Just because he's a free agent doesn't mean he wouldn't be somewhat coveted after a 50 goal year. Cameron had been talking to the Flames all season. Sounds like the Flames got in there early and picked up a good asset.

A lot of you guys made it sound that Cameron only came on board with the Flames when Wal mart rejected his application.

hmm.... is it legal to speak to players who's rights are owned by another team (ie. tampering)?

or does it work differently for prospects?

[flameester]

Cameron was drafted by LA in 2007 but was not signed before last years draft so he became a free agent so anyone can talk to him so there would have been no tampering.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

First of all, Cameron was in the OHL, not the W.

Secondly, you don't rip up the CHL just because you are 21, you have to have skill to do that no matter what age you are.

Thirdly, so Sutter said he'd be a 2nd rounder if he was draft eligible this year. Who cares? Besides, Sutter knows alot more about hockey, draft picks etc, etc...than the lot of you combined.

Most players don't mature until they are in their mid 20s, forget about players generally aged 16-20 in the CHL. If you're 21 and playing against players 2,3,4 or even 5 years younger than you that are in their development infancy and you can't dominate, you have problems. It doesn't mean all 20+ year old players need to put up Brendl like junior numbers but you should do more than just standout. Not only are you much more experienced and likely have been to some NHL camps, you're also more likely to have physically matured.

Yes, Sutter knows more than many posters combined but that doesn't make his opinion right. There are assistant GMs that can do Darryl's job much better than he can like Nill and Conte. So what? Milbury was also a GM for a very long time, should we get his opinion too?

[Flame4Ever]

Bryan Cameron has score over 30 goals in his last 4 seasons in the OHL, so it's not like this is the year he starting to physically dominate players. He's a fantastic player to take a chance on. Now if only they would sign/draft his team mate Darren Archibald, then we could really call the OHL scoutin staff geniuses.
I don't have any iea what sutter was saying, but if he was implying that Cameron would o in he second round thisyear, that's total crap. If he did have some draft eligibility, I wouldn't have been surprised if someone took a chance on him in the 5th round similar to Matt Kennedy last year.

[Sylvanfan]

The negativity in every one of Cactus Jack's posts is making me sick.

Conte, and Nill make for great assistants, or directors of scouting but how do you know they'd be better General Mangaers? Yet you continue to ruin these forums with your negative crap and post stuff like this in every thread as if it's a fact. You don't think these guys get GM jobs offered to them, maybe they know they're good in their current roles but don't have what it would take to be the head guy.

Than we have your a If you're 21 and playing against players 2,3,4 or even 5 years younger than you that are in their development infancy and you can't dominate, you have problems

Yeah, problems, like real life problems? That is so full of holes I don't know where to start. You make it sound like Junior hockey is nothing but 16 and 17 year olds and that a 21 year old dominated them all. Fact is Junior is mostly 18 to 20 year olds playing and that is the group Cameron played against most of the time. You can't even acknowlege that you got his league wrong, you spin it into more he sucks he should absolutely own everyone junk.

You are such a negative person I don't know why you waste your time following hockey and posting on this forum. In particular you hate Darryl Sutter and the Flames so much it is ruining your life. Find something you enjoy in life and stick with that hockey ain't it right now.

[Cactus Jack]

Negative? Runing my life? Buddy, you need a reality check. Go look at your posts and see how many of them are made any given weekend between 6pm on a friday and midnight on a sunday. And then look at mine (I believe 1 or 2 a few months ago when PS3 broke). That should tell you everything about which one of us needs to get a life.

If you don't want to hear a well-reasoned opinon, don't go to a message board. I said I like the signing because it's low risk but to call this guy a 2nd rounder is a big time stretch. If that's negative, then go ahead. And I'm sorry for mentioning 2 assistant GMs off the top of my head that are imminently more qualified than our current incumbent.

[Roof-Daddy]

^^ He's a moderator genius.

Next you'll be calling him a troll, and telling him to eat CDC paste.

EDIT: Also, he didn't tell you to "get a life", he said it seems like maybe you need to find a new hobby, because you sure don't seem to be enjoying this one ATM....and you're trying to bring the rest of us down with you.

[jeremywilhelm]

What a surprise. Cactus Jack brings his HF mentality to another thread and spends all his energy trying to tell us how much the Flames and Sutter sucks.

Bravo!

[dissentowner]

I could see you having a valid argument if he started dominating at 21 but the guy has put up those numbers pretty much his entire OHL career

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Negative? Runing my life? Buddy, you need a reality check. Go look at your posts and see how many of them are made any given weekend between 6pm on a friday and midnight on a sunday. And then look at mine (I believe 1 or 2 a few months ago when PS3 broke). That should tell you everything about which one of us needs to get a life.

Just so I'm clear - your evidence of having a life is that you are busy with your Play Station between 6:00 PM on Friday and 12:00 PM on Sunday?

[Knalus]

No wonder Sutter hates the media. Considering how nit-picky and moronic some of the arguments are here on "what did he mean!" "What were the actual words he used!?!", "That doesn't make sense to me, ergo, he's a dum-dum".

I enjoy reading about new prospects like Bryan Cameron - it's a good thing for flames fans. I shake my head however at the people picking apart the conversations of the worlds greatest conversationalist.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Buddy, you need a reality check. Go look at your posts and see how many of them are made any given weekend between 6pm on a friday and midnight on a sunday. And then look at mine (I believe 1 or 2 a few months ago when PS3 broke). That should tell you everything about which one of us needs to get a life.

Yeah, you know having an infant in the house, I don't exactly get out to the bar a lot on weekends. My life pretty much consists of looking after the kid, helping my wife look after him when I get home from work, getting him fed, putting him to bed than winding down before I get myself to bed pretty early so I can get a decent night of sleep for myself because I'll probably be up at 5 AM.

If trying to do a reasonable job of looking after my kid rather than playing playstation all weekend or hanging out at bars, or whatever else is having a life, you can have it.

Please break your playstation again so you can't post here anymore. I'll try to neglect my kid and spend more time doing things so I have a life.

Signing Bryan Cameron is a good thing, nothing negative about it. The Flames have actually done a pretty decent job finding players in the OHL, and I hope he ends up being as good as guys like Giordano or Ryan Wilson.

[Cactus Jack]

Haters can hate and make uninformed assertions about me but I still stand by the fact I think this guy is a reach as a 2nd rounder.

[Jables16]

Originally Posted by Vox

Just so I'm clear - your evidence of having a life is that you are busy with your Play Station between 6:00 PM on Friday and 12:00 PM on Sunday?

Hey, leave the guy alone. He's probably spending that time being the GM of his NHL 10 league so he can feel qualified to assess the merits of actual NHL GMs. That's what we in the biz call "due dilligence" and I for one admire his dedication.