2010 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Caged Great]

The Jays also signed their 35th round pick, RHP Dan Barnes, 42nd round pick RHP Drew Pominon, and 2nd round rick 61st overall LHP Griffen Murphy.

Apparently the Jays Rookie ball club is seriously lacking in pitching.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

It's pretty convenient that you started being a fan 3 years ago. I have been watching them get sodomized by the AL east for 12 years. I have watched the bad first round picks, the bad novelty managers and the continually bad fanbase. This team is like a very rare diamond that has been forged by millions of years(hyperbole) of pressure and disappointment.

I remember when BJ upton was the SS of the future. etc...

It's nice that you started to like the team after they landed a once in a generation player like Longoria and things started to go well for them. But for someone who talks as much trash as you did, you really don't have much right to. You seem like a band wagon fan, ie there for the good times. And wade davis is what you offered for Halladay, no brignac. Nice try. And how is a guy who throws a curveball like that and a 95mph heater your worst? You're a joke. We start off with tallet and nobody said anything. It's called class, buddy.

Your’e calling me a bandwagon fan when I never liked or watched baseball growing up? Are you going to call the Flames fans on this forum who are from places outside of calgary outside of canada outside of north america who decided that they enjoyed hockey even though they didn't enjoy it growing up and just happened to pick the Calgary flames to be their favorite team because they are good now band wagon fans even though they live and breath the Flames?

Davis is the worst in our rotation look at the stats buddy. He is young and has great upside but he is still the worst pitcher in our rotation. If you want to call me a band wagon fan go ahead. Flying across the continent twice a year to watch a team play, setting up a slingbox in Tampa to watch sports highlights and commentary, to pay for mlb.tv every year so I can watch every game I possibly can road trips to Seattle for a weekend to catch a series, trying to convince my fiancé to go to Oakland while we are on our honeymoon in La to catch a game or 2 of that series.

I understand that you are upset that the rays have become good so quickly after of being a terrible organization from top to bottom while your jays are mediocre every year.

I apologize that I wasn't a fan of baseball growing up so I could remember the old days of rainbow uniforms and Jose Canseco, but to call me a band wagon fan when I probably put in triple the amount of effort you do to stay in touch with the team I like. Talking trash is part of sports if you can't handle it maybe you should have rooted for a team that doesn't strive on being mediocre every year and you can dish it out some time.

And if you think I talk trash on here you should see what I do to Boston fans at the ball park.

[Antithesis]

Wow, how about that, a GM who signs draft picks. What a new and sensational idea!

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Your calling me a bandwagon fan when I never liked or watched baseball growing up? Davis is the worst in our rotation look at the stats buddy. He is young and has great upside but he is still the worst pitcher in our rotation. If you want to call me a band wagon fan go ahead. Flying across the continent twice a year to watch a team play, setting up a slingbox in tampa to watch sports highlites and commentary, to pay for mlb.tv every year so I can watch every game I possibly can road trips to seattle for a weekend to catch a series, trying to convince my fiance to go to oakland while we are on our honeymoon in La to catch a game or 2 of that series.

I understand that you are upset that the rays have become good so quickly after of being a terrible orginization from top to bottom while your jays are mediocre every year.

I apologize that I wasn't a fan of baseball growing up so I could remember the old days of rainbow uniforms and Jose Canseco, but to call me a band wagon fan when I probably put in triple the amount of effort you do to stay in touch with the team I like. Talking trash is part of sports if you can't handle it maybe you should have rooted for a team that doesn't strive on being medicore every year and you can dish it out some time.

I guess we are mediocre every year, cough, two world series championships, cough. Win one and then talk like that.

wade davis being the worst is like criticizing megan fox for being having B cups. You're nitpicking. I wish my worst rotation starter was tagged by the most powerful line up in the league for only two runs.

Triple the amount hey? how do you know what I've invested into the teams I like? All the trips to Stadt Olympique? You are ill informed, but why would I share that with a rays fan.

Trash talking is an american love affair. I don't trash really anyone. I sometimes trash the oilers but i give them, like all, credit where credit is due.

PS, I was a fan of the expos who were cheated by the league. I am a bluejays fan by default. But at least I know about more than my own team, something which I thinks escapes you with your Davis bashing and your patronizing of us beleaguered bluejay fans. We'll be good again,even if we are close now.

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Wow, how about that, a GM who signs draft picks. What a new and sensational idea!

What a novel idea, who would have thought this could be a good idea?!

[fundmark19]

Read back in the thread I don't cut the blue jays down when the rays are not playing them. But thanks for coming out. I give credit. What part of I didn't watch the game so I can't comment on it did you forget to read. And because my team has a good rotation I can't say that davis has been our worst pitcher? Am I not allowed to watch the black hawks win the stanley cup and say I wish he would score more goals in the scf. Because he has a lot of talent I am not allowed to criticize? Is that not the point of being a sports fan? To have oppionions

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Wow, how about that, a GM who signs draft picks. What a new and sensational idea!

JP not signing those picks last year meant we had more picks this year, after the planned increase in scouting staff. JP also deserves credit (IMO) for not rushing players for the fan's sake (I'm thinking Romero and Lind specifically).

Also, the pitchers that are currently carrying our staff took their lumps and developed during JP's reign.

This hate-everything-Riccardi attitude kinda reminds me of when Keenan left the Flames - everything bad was his fault and everything good happened in spite of him.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Gozer

JP not signing those picks last year meant we had more picks this year, after the planned increase in scouting staff. JP also deserves credit (IMO) for not rushing players for the fan's sake (I'm thinking Romero and Lind specifically).

Also, the pitchers that are currently carrying our staff took their lumps and developed during JP's reign.

This hate-everything-Riccardi attitude kinda reminds me of when Keenan left the Flames - everything bad was his fault and everything good happened in spite of him.

Keenan had two years with the Flames, JP had a lot longer time with the Jays.

Sure theres some pieces in place from his reign as Jays GM but theres a lot more moves he made that even after he's gone, are handicapping this team.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Keenan had two years with the Flames, JP had a lot longer time with the Jays.

Sure theres some pieces in place from his reign as Jays GM but theres a lot more moves he made that even after he's gone, are handicapping this team.

Like what?
Bad contracts (Thomas/Ryan) that were UFAs and cost no assets and expiring this offsaeason? A Wells contract that he didn't want to sign?

And Thomas and Ryan specically, should be ashamed that they wouldn't accept platoon roles and continue to contribute - and I'm happy that the Jays played hardball with those two.

What else did he do?
Build an extremely competitive team in the toughest division in baseball with veteran free agents while developing prospects into stars at extremely reasonable contracts?

Consitently had the best bullpen and best starting staff in the league, and those young players are now the backbone of the current staff.

On top of that, Riccardi was on the radio every Wednesday taking unscreened phone calls from fans. Didn't always answer, but often got himself in trouble by being too honest. Hardly the trait of a villanous weasel.


Look at the Orioles who have been rebuilding for years with "young talented future stars" that fans would be patient with because they were rushed to the bigs, an organization with no depth or stability in the pitching rotation because they chase great measureables - that's bad GMing.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Read back in the thread I don't cut the blue jays down when the rays are not playing them. But thanks for coming out. I give credit. What part of I didn't watch the game so I can't comment on it did you forget to read. And because my team has a good rotation I can't say that davis has been our worst pitcher? Am I not allowed to watch the black hawks win the stanley cup and say I wish he would score more goals in the scf. Because he has a lot of talent I am not allowed to criticize? Is that not the point of being a sports fan? To have oppionions

I don't have to. YOu saying, 'get the brooms out, sorry jays fans, I sense a sweep'. Then when the sweep is allayed you pin it on your 'worst' starting pitcher, who would be several other clubs' best starting option.

And it's not that you're not allowed to criticize, it's what are you trying to accomplish with your criticism?

Me with critiquing you, is me wanting to flush out your quality as a contributor so as to be able to have you contribute to the board more so or less so. Since I rarely see you comment on anything that isn't concerning the rays, i just am curious to your intentions. There are posters that are fans of teams other than the flames, jays, stamps and are well respected for their contributions and their insight. Some have playful chauvinism for their teams, and others are just trolls.

You seem to be a rare TBay contributor, so I am just trying if you have more in you than just trolling the Jays thread.

Despite the lovely repartee... here is something some of us y chromosomers can enjoy...there should be more in my opinion.
http://mopupduty.com/index.php/baseballs-hottest-wives/

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Like what?
Bad contracts (Thomas/Ryan) that were UFAs and cost no assets and expiring this offsaeason? A Wells contract that he didn't want to sign?

And Thomas and Ryan specically, should be ashamed that they wouldn't accept platoon roles and continue to contribute - and I'm happy that the Jays played hardball with those two.

What else did he do?
Build an extremely competitive team in the toughest division in baseball with veteran free agents while developing prospects into stars at extremely reasonable contracts?

Consitently had the best bullpen and best starting staff in the league, and those young players are now the backbone of the current staff.

On top of that, Riccardi was on the radio every Wednesday taking unscreened phone calls from fans. Didn't always answer, but often got himself in trouble by being too honest. Hardly the trait of a villanous weasel.


Look at the Orioles who have been rebuilding for years with "young talented future stars" that fans would be patient with because they were rushed to the bigs, an organization with no depth or stability in the pitching rotation because they chase great measureables - that's bad GMing.

Frank Thomas was a horrible pickup to begin with. There contracts are just as bad, even if they were both bench players that rarely contributed. BJ Ryan got every chance to contribute to this team but was just awful after his first season. These two contracts really hurt the Jays. The fact that they played "hardball" with these two players once they showed that they were going to be busts, is meaningless in my mind.

Trading Alex Rios for absolutely nothing

He made some god awful trades. The number is so small for how many players he received in trades are still even in the organization.

The Jays have had one of the best starting staffs in the league? Pleaasssee

That's great he had his radio show, nobody liked a mic more then him. He also spouted from the mouth.

He "didn't" want to sign Wells? Well he did, end of story and handicapped this teams payroll for years to come.

His 5 year plan was complete BS and never panned out. He brought in a bunch of "moneyball" guys like him, and sold high expectations to the fans. Then by the end of his reign, all he could say was how tough the AL east is

In his 8 seasons with the Jays, this is the first season we've actually seen a strong core of young pitching prospects that can contribute. He was all about building up the farm system and when it came to pitching, he failed.

Also it has to be of note that he had the best pitcher in baseball to build around for many years.

[Antithesis]

I never said that I considered JP's reign a complete failure. I'm saying that him not signing those picks was a bad move in my opinion! Hey - at least we have some positive things to talk about with our team now though. Much more fun when they are exceeding expectations.

[flames_1987]

Agreed. Looks like a delay tonight to get started but game should get going

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

King Ubaldo... I'm anxious to see this guy in action. I hope that Papi Tulo has a tough time with LL Cool Romero.

[Gozer]

Ultimately a lot of this stuff is subjective, but;

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Frank Thomas was a horrible pickup to begin with. There contracts are just as bad, even if they were both bench players that rarely contributed. BJ Ryan got every chance to contribute to this team but was just awful after his first season. These two contracts really hurt the Jays. The fact that they played "hardball" with these two players once they showed that they were going to be busts, is meaningless in my mind.

Thomas had 26 home runs and 95 RBIs in his full season. Hardly "horrible". Refused to platoon his second season.

Ryan had 36, 38, and 32 save seasons. Missed one injured and refused to be a middle reliever in his final season.

How bad did those contracts really hurt the Jays?

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Trading Alex Rios for absolutely nothing

He played above his contract and then was waived to free payroll.

FYI, the White Sox's assistant GM claimed Rios without asking permission to add the payroll because he expected the Jays to revoke Rios' rights.

He would not have received permission.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

The Jays have had one of the best starting staffs in the league? Pleaasssee

2008. Pitching staff led the league in ERA and WHIP

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/by..._2008&sort=837

If I recall correctly, they had the best starting rotation AND the best bullpen in the league.

3rd place in '07 too. You're weeeeeelllllccccccooooooommmmmmmme.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

That's great he had his radio show, nobody liked a mic more then him. He also spouted from the mouth.

That would be the preferred orifice.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

He "didn't" want to sign Wells? Well he did, end of story and handicapped this teams payroll for years to come.

JP considered it a bad contract but was overruled by ownership. Rogers has acknowledged this. They feared fans would be furious if they let him sign in Texas (where he wanted to be) so they severely overpaid him.

Many fans consider that irrelevant when judging JP. I can't grasp the logic.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

His 5 year plan was complete BS and never panned out. He brought in a bunch of "moneyball" guys like him, and sold high expectations to the fans. Then by the end of his reign, all he could say was how tough the AL east is

The 5 year plan was vaguely alluded to by JP and fans clung to it because BJ and AJ's contracts coincided with the concept.
He didn't actually manage off a five year plan.
I know this because I consistently listened to him answer questions like that every week (which somehow makes him more of a jerk).

Also, the team consistently had upper-eighties win totals against the toughest division in baseball. It's rather common knowledge that the Jays would have won at least two division titles during his reign if he was in another division.
Maybe admitting that the division is an obstacle is a fault of JPs, but again, his fault is honesty.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

He made some god awful trades.

Name 'em.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/files/...0Ricciardi.xls

Trading Kristian Bell to acquire Marco Scutaro?
Player To Be Named Later for Jose Bautista?
Buzachero for Tallet?
Hillenbrand for Accardo - who led the team in saves the year BJ was hurt.

You got the link, give me four "god awful" trades that would compare with those four terrific trades - all of whom are still on the roster except Scutaro who landed the Jays two high picks this past draft on his way out.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

In his 8 seasons with the Jays, this is the first season we've actually seen a strong core of young pitching prospects that can contribute. He was all about building up the farm system and when it came to pitching, he failed.

What!?

There must have been ten different starts by players that would be considered prospects last year alone.

JP failed to build up the farm pitching staff only insomuch as too many of his pitching prospects became legitimate big league starters. Other than Drabek (from the Doc trade), the ridiculous wealth of starting pitching this team currently has (a statement I don't think I need to justify) was built by JP - none of whom were acquired by giving up assets.

Attacking the guy for not building young pitching depth makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Gozer

JP not signing those picks last year meant we had more picks this year, after the planned increase in scouting staff.

It also meant that we had to sign those picks this year as the Jays wouldn't receive another compensation pick next year if they didn't sign.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JayP

It also meant that we had to sign those picks this year as the Jays wouldn't receive another compensation pick next year if they didn't sign.

Which is partly why they took Snazalguard or whatever his name was, sign-ability.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Correct sir... and look he's already on the dotted...

anyway...Playball...

wow, this doesn't look like it will be a long game with that rain...

[GirlySports]

I've never seen a game played in Rain this hard!

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

I can't believe it's inning 3 with these conditions.

Yet, AHill with a 2 run shot! 3-2 jays.