Prospective Employers Changing Job Postings During Interviewing Stage

[Drury18]

After trying to do some internet research on the subject I figured I would ask the CP Brain Trust here.

Currently I'm looking for a job and was interviewed by a Company who posted a job for a Senior Admin. I went through all their interview phases, even did the testing and then was left to wait. 10 days later I recieved an email from the President who I would have been working for giving me some explaination that the business hit a few bumps and that they were reviewing the needs of the business and budget and may not have enough money to hire me but rather an HR Manager and Intermediate Admin Assistant instead (this makes no sense as the wage I was asking is still less then an HR Manager). He went on to say that if they did decide to hire a Senior Admin I would be offered the position and a decision would be made later in the week as to which direction they were going.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks later and I see on the same website the job I applied to was on that the company posted the jobs for the HR Manager and Intermediate Admin with no further communication from the President about what would happen with the Senior Admin job I applied for.

I'm just curious if there is anywhere you can report this guy for pulling something like this? I understand businesses can change their needs, but it seems wrong that they can interview numerous candidates to second and third interviews and then do something like this. This isn't even the first time it's happened this time looking for a job as I've had two other places interview me for a 2nd and 3rd time and then I see the job reposted as a Receptionist or Admin Assistant for half the pay the were offering at the interview and then sent an explaination of "We were not prepared to pay as much as candidates were asking".

[Fobulous]

To be honest, I don't really think you have an argument here.

Although I am sure you were more than qualified, the wage you may have been asking might be out of there price range. Rather than offer 10 senior admins a job at a pay that they would not be willing to take they obviously thought they may need to interview some more junior individuals... hence the posting changing to a intermediate admin rather than a senior admin.

[CaptainCrunch]

It happens, theres nothing you can do about it.

You were applying for a senior admin role, they decided that they wanted an intermediate probably for less money, and you were not qualified for the HR role.

No company is obligated to contact a candidate, its not like the old days where you got a letter or phone call, its up to you to followup.

But he'll tell you this "If we have a need for a senior admin, then we'll certainly contact you"

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Fobulous

Rather than offer 10 senior admins a job at a pay that they would not be willing to take they obviously thought they may need to interview some more junior individuals... hence the posting changing to a intermediate admin rather than a senior admin.

Actually, it was to hire an HR Manager and an Intermediate Admin instead of one Senior Admin role. The current person was doing the jobs of both people and they were going to carry on as such.

I understand what you mean by your comment and I understand why a company would pull back finding out what a senior admin costs and go for a lesser. In this case, it was to hire two people instead of one person for the role, one of them being an HR manager. The Intermediate Admin job was advertised to pay $40K and since what I was asking was about $15K more then that, that means they would have to pay the HR Manager $10K to actually be "saving money" as they claimed they wanted to. Most payscale websites state HR Managers make about $55K.

[Pinner]

Maybe they were just trolling the waters to see what was out there, you got tossed back.

[valo403]

Report the guy? For what? Acting in the general course of business?

It would have been nice if he'd called you, but it's a courtesy that really isn't to be expected.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by fotze

He did call her, he then proceeded to make up some bullcrap scenario about things he shouldn't even discuss to someone he isn't hiring.

What did he make up?
He told her that they were going to hire an HR manager and intermediate admin instead, and that's what they did.

[ken0042]

So what you are saying is that with these inconsistencies in their hiring practices, they could really use a good HR manager.

[DuffMan]

Do you have bewbs, I bet they're looking for someone with bewbies.

[Drury18]

Pinner, more then 60% of my job interviews have been trolls. It seems to be common place with businesses right now. You meet them for 15 minutes, first question is how much do you want and then its small talk for 10 minutes and shown the door.

Valo, the reporting was more for the fact that I was told, via email, that I would be hired for the position they advertised for and interviewed numerous candidates for and then after they finished all of the final interviews (which was a lengthy process, not just a 15 minute meeting. This was 3 interviews, about 2-3 hours time invested) and supposedly made a decision on hiring and then retracted the job to hire two other ones in its place. To me, this is beyond poor business or HR skills and not within the "normal" business practices.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Pinner, more then 60% of my job interviews have been trolls. It seems to be common place with businesses right now. You meet them for 15 minutes, first question is how much do you want and then its small talk for 10 minutes and shown the door.

Valo, the reporting was more for the fact that I was told, via email, that I would be hired for the position they advertised for and interviewed numerous candidates for and then after they finished all of the final interviews (which was a lengthy process, not just a 15 minute meeting. This was 3 interviews, about 2-3 hours time invested) and supposedly made a decision on hiring and then retracted the job to hire two other ones in its place. To me, this is beyond poor business or HR skills and not within the "normal" business practices.

How are you answering the question about salary expectations?

[Drury18]

I am answering stating that this is what I have made in my previous position and that I'm looking for something in that ballpark.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Pinner, more then 60% of my job interviews have been trolls. It seems to be common place with businesses right now. You meet them for 15 minutes, first question is how much do you want and then its small talk for 10 minutes and shown the door.

Valo, the reporting was more for the fact that I was told, via email, that I would be hired for the position they advertised for and interviewed numerous candidates for and then after they finished all of the final interviews (which was a lengthy process, not just a 15 minute meeting. This was 3 interviews, about 2-3 hours time invested) and supposedly made a decision on hiring and then retracted the job to hire two other ones in its place. To me, this is beyond poor business or HR skills and not within the "normal" business practices.

Well that's certainly not what you said in your fist post.
You didn't say anything about them actually telling you they were going to hire you.

I should clarify that. I guess they did say they would hire you IF they decided to go with their original plan.
That's a pretty big "If" though, and one that I'd say is right in line with normal business practices.

What are they supposed to do? They've decided their needs aren't exactly what they posted jobs for, so they should still hire someone who had different qualifications than what they are looking for?

[Pinner]

I don't work in an office and don't really pay any attention to the goings on in the hiring process, that said maybe they were hoping you would lower your wage expectations?

After all these years working one thing still amazes me, the people management hires...I've seen the demise of once good money making companies simply because management hired or left the wrong person in a important position sending a shiver of incompetence throughout the personnel.

Keep your chin up and don't let the job search get you down.

[CaptainCrunch]

Probably not the greatest strategy, and that might be why your getting pushed out the door.

In terms of handling the salary expectation question, there's a couple of effective ways to deal with it.

Ask what other people in the same position are making or even the predicessor to that position.

Or research what that position makes within the industry using salary surveys and respond that this is the industry standard based on my research, where do you fall.

At least your keeping some control over the interview.

I've even used the line "Are you making me an offer" if they ask about salaries before we get to the meat of the position, and its worked well.

In terms of the second, when they told you about the position split, did you ask why they changed their mind?

Its not really poor business skills, or poor HR skills, if they interviewed, maybe liked you , but decided that the role was probably better suited to someone with intermediate skills, and with the savings they can shore up other positions, their decision could also be based around the fear that you're over qualified and would get bored or leave, or if you've priced yourself out of the position and they feel that another more junior and cheaper candidate is a better fit your going to be out of luck unless you can convince them other wise.

Phoning you and saying that they're thinking of hiring you really means nothing. It would be more odious if they sent you an offer, you quit your search and then they withdrew their offer.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Probably not the greatest strategy, and that might be why your getting pushed out the door.

In terms of handling the salary expectation question, there's a couple of effective ways to deal with it.

Ask what other people in the same position are making or even the predicessor to that position.

Or research what that position makes within the industry using salary surveys and respond that this is the industry standard based on my research, where do you fall.

At least your keeping some control over the interview.

I've even used the line "Are you making me an offer" if they ask about salaries before we get to the meat of the position, and its worked well.

In terms of the second, when they told you about the position split, did you ask why they changed their mind?

Its not really poor business skills, or poor HR skills, if they interviewed, maybe liked you , but decided that the role was probably better suited to someone with intermediate skills, and with the savings they can shore up other positions, their decision could also be based around the fear that you're over qualified and would get bored or leave, or if you've priced yourself out of the position and they feel that another more junior and cheaper candidate is a better fit your going to be out of luck unless you can convince them other wise.

Phoning you and saying that they're thinking of hiring you really means nothing. It would be more odious if they sent you an offer, you quit your search and then they withdrew their offer.

As usual, Captain sums up everything I was going to say
Unfortunately for you, there was never an offer tended so I don't think you have any case to take it further.
Better luck with future positions

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Drury18

but rather an HR Manager and Intermediate Admin Assistant instead

Maybe hiring two people would leave the company in a better position if anything happens to the one employee, like the one they were previously relying on.

It could be just a strategic change, a decision made by a higher up.

[Drury18]

CC, thank you so much for the insight. The money dance seems to be the toughest one and I'll be the first to admit my negotiation skills for wage are lacking. In my previous job searches, I've never had a problem getting a job or negotiate a deal. I'm usually looking no more then a week and negoiating a deal that is more then average price. This time around things have been so much different. Not unlike many other CP posters I've seen posting here with the same trials.

Many places seem to not be willing to reveal what current or previous people are making, which has lead me to reveal my number first. It might be a case of asking the wrong questions, but I've been very straightfoward asking what their range is or what the current person is making and have been met with "That's confidential and we want to know your expectations first". The confidential thing amazes me since I would think if you're interested enough in having me in for an interview, you'd be willing to reveal a monetary range.

From people I know in the field currently, I am asking low for the experience and education I have, as well as where I specialize. They've said going for what I made in my last position (mostly because I went from a poor paying non-profit to for profit corporations) is a steal because most people in my standing demand more. From the research on several better known wage sites (including the Canadian Wageinfo site) and my ballpark range for wage is actually slightly lower then the median for the position on all those sites. The jobs that have revealed what they may be paying actually fall well below what the low point of pay for the position is. Median pay for what I'm looking for is around $60,000 (no specialities, basic education, about half the years I have in). The places that have revealed what they are paying are in the $36-40K range with the explaination that its the recession and I can't expect to make much. When I counter with info on the pay rates as per the sites, I'm just told they can hire someone cheaper and will.

I will have to remember the "Offering a position" line though as I do see how that would put the control back to the interviewee as well as to judge what the seriousness of the hiring is seeing that most places are kicking tires and what room for negotiation there is.

With regards to the split, I was simply told that the prior assistant in the positon handled all of the HR duties in addition to all assistant duties and after reviewing the budget, they felt it would be cheaper to hire an HR Manager and an Intermediate Admin Assistant then one Executive Assistant.

I've learned long ago, you don't quit your search and interviews until you've worked a day in the position you were hired for. I can think of 3 jobs off hand that prior to starting work and having an offer in place rescinded it on the first day under the "3 month rule" to hire someone that would work for less. Mind you this was during the Construction boom and people in that industry were through jobs like revolving doors when money was at stake.

[DuffMan]

whenever I get asked about salary, I say somethiing like, with my experience, I would expect to be at about 80% of the range of the position, so maybe you can tell me what the salary range is...

[CaptainCrunch]

One of the ways that I've gotten around the salary question is the straightforward answer.

"Whats your best offer"

The other aspect that works is to say that you'd like to find out more about the position before I tell you what I think the position is worth.

When I've been the interviewer, I've used the salary question to knock them off balance to see how they react. If they blurt out a salary or a number, then I know that they're not focusing on finding out what they need to know to make a salary demand.