Should Calgary bid for another Olympics?

[frinkprof]

Edmonton/Calgary joint bid likely won't ever happen. Just too far apart, even with the HSR link. The IOC wants all venues accessible within a short commute (i.e. not the best case scenario of 75 minutes on HSR) of the athlete and media villages. The Winter Olympics get a pass on the alpine events being further away understandably due to geography of the various bidding cities relative to mountains, but certainly not on other events such as having curling and speed skating in Calgary while hockey and figure skating is in Edmonton or other such arrangements.

As for a 2022 bid, I have no problem with submitting a bid to the COC. Quebec will likely be the next choice at the national level though. If Calgary went on to the IOC level, I would not expect to win. I also picture something more like 2034, 2038 or 2042.

As for the Summer Olympics, Toronto will be the only realistic choice in Canada for some time. I think they may have a shot in 2024 or 2028. This will be the major focus of the Canadian Olympic Committee rather than another Winter Olympics I think.

Rotation-wise, I'd expect the next Americas Winter Olympics to go to the USA, Denver is my guess, then 8-12 years after that, maybe Canada. Don't count out South America as a possibility either, as the Olympic Movement has gone in that direction of late (Beijing 2008, Rio 2016, possibly South Africa 2020).

Something I'd like to see Calgary go after is a Pan-American or Commonwealth Games. Easier to win (less international competition), a more workable scale for a city of Calgary's size, and you would still get an attractive infrastructure package as a legacy. Probably new stadium (replacement for McMahon), velodrome, athlete's village (affordable housing), transportation projects. Next North America rotation year for Pan-American Games would be 2027 (after 2015 Toronto, 2019 South America, 2023 Central America).

Commonwealth Games were last held in Canada in 1994 in Victoria. 1998 was Kuala Lampur, 2002 Manchester, 2006 Melbourne, 2010 New Delhi, 2014 Glasgow, Gold Coast, Australia looks like they will bid for 2018. Canada has also hosted in 1978 Edmonton, 1954 Vancouver, and 1930 Hamilton (first Commonwealth Games). Canada is definitely due for hosting it again. I think something like the 2022 or 2026 Commonwealth Games could be realistic for Calgary.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Edmonton/Calgary joint bid likely won't ever happen. Just too far apart, even with the HSR link. The IOC wants all venues accessible within a short commute (i.e. not the best case scenario of 75 minutes on HSR) of the athlete and media villages. The Winter Olympics get a pass on the alpine events being further away understandably due to geography of the various bidding cities relative to mountains, but certainly not on other events such as having curling and speed skating in Calgary while hockey and figure skating is in Edmonton or other such arrangements.

As for a 2022 bid, I have no problem with submitting a bid to the COC. Quebec will likely be the next choice at the national level though. If Calgary went on to the IOC level, I would not expect to win. I also picture something more like 2034, 2038 or 2042.

As for the Summer Olympics, Toronto will be the only realistic choice in Canada for some time. I think they may have a shot in 2024 or 2028. This will be the major focus of the Canadian Olympic Committee rather than another Winter Olympics I think.

Rotation-wise, I'd expect the next Americas Winter Olympics to go to the USA, Denver is my guess, then 8-12 years after that, maybe Canada. Don't count out South America as a possibility either, as the Olympic Movement has gone in that direction of late (Beijing 2008, Rio 2016, possibly South Africa 2020).

Something I'd like to see Calgary go after is a Pan-American or Commonwealth Games. Easier to win (less international competition), a more workable scale for a city of Calgary's size, and you would still get an attractive infrastructure package as a legacy. Probably new stadium (replacement for McMahon), velodrome, athlete's village (affordable housing), transportation projects. Next North America rotation year for Pan-American Games would be 2027 (after 2015 Toronto, 2019 South America, 2023 Central America).

Commonwealth Games were last held in Canada in 1994 in Victoria. 1998 was Kuala Lampur, 2002 Manchester, 2006 Melbourne, 2010 New Delhi, 2014 Glasgow, Gold Coast, Australia looks like they will bid for 2018. Canada has also hosted in 1978 Edmonton, 1954 Vancouver, and 1930 Hamilton (first Commonwealth Games). Canada is definitely due for hosting it again. I think something like the 2022 or 2026 Commonwealth Games could be realistic for Calgary.

Pretty difficult to see the Winter games going to South America simply due to the weather. Beijing is in the Northern hemisphere, and Rio and South Africa are sufficiently warm to still host the games near the Northern summer months. Is there anywhere in South America that would have the ability to host alpine events in January - March? The IOC is all for moving things around, I don't think they'll be backing a winter olympics in the northern summer anytime soon though.

[goodyear]

It'd be interesting to see Calgary host the summer olympics and be perhaps the only city to have hosted both?

Or for shiggles, we should host next G8/G20/G77/G202/APEC/NATO/UNICEF/Universe summit...those look FUN!!!

Turn Stephen Ave into a lake!

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Does Quebec City even have Olympic sized mountain courses to even run a proper ski event?

mont st anne.

40km outside quebec city and only 20m vertical less than tremblant.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by valo403

Pretty difficult to see the Winter games going to South America simply due to the weather. Beijing is in the Northern hemisphere, and Rio and South Africa are sufficiently warm to still host the games near the Northern summer months. Is there anywhere in South America that would have the ability to host alpine events in January - March? The IOC is all for moving things around, I don't think they'll be backing a winter olympics in the northern summer anytime soon though.

Yeah, it is a long shot for sure.

The angle I was taking with the Beijing and Rio examples was the move to less developed countries than the usual Europe/North America/sometimes Japan, Korea, Australia rotation.

As for the seasonal differences, moving the dates to accommodate that isn't without precedence. The Summer Games have been held in September, November, and even December before. I agree though that holding the Winter Olympics in May or June would not be as tenable.

[Jetsfan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's not far off but I'm pretty sure Quebec City will get one before Calgary ever does again. Especially with good old Marcel Aubut at the helm. Don't think Toronto will ever get a summer games.

I have read somewhere that Quebec's mountains are not high or long enough for all the Alpine events.

Is this true or not?

[frinkprof]

^I've read this as well. They don't meet the minimum requirements set out by the IOC for hosting a Winter Olympics. Not enough vertical. As I understand it, these sorts of rules have been bent in the past if the rest of the bid is good. It would be a challenge for Quebec City though.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by SebC

Not true... St. Moritz also hosted twice.

I forgot about that one but that was only due to WWII cancelling the previous two locations and no viable bids and those winter olympics were kind of funny as there was almost no money, few spectators, many competitors had no equipement, and because it followed WWII, they had events like "military patrol".

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't really see what any of this, save the first two paragraphs, has to do with anything. There are a limited number of cities that really have the ability or interest to host the winter games, and Calgary is among them. When you have only had 20 events you wouldn't expect a lot of repeats, but there were plenty. The cause isn't important, the same causes could arise for Calgary in say 2038 as did Lake Placid in 1980. The IOC has shown a desire to bring the games to North America, and they aren't likely to grant them to American cities over and over again so that leaves Canada. I'd be stunned if Canada doesn't host another winter games in the next 30 years. If that happens Calgary would certainly be in the mix.

Calgary's existing infrastructure will not be useful for the most part, but nothing indicates that Calgary has any interest in simply watching that infrastructure deteriorate. The only venues I really see a potential issue with are the sliding tracks and the oval, and of course the ski jumps which are already obsolete. The sliding tracks can likely be maintained, they'd have to be if Calgary wants to continue to be a world cup site, but the oval might need major updates by then. It's hard to say though, the oval is still pretty state of the art in terms of speed skating venues, will much change in another 30 years? Other venues will be updating for other reasons, there will without a doubt be a new arena sometime in the next 10 years, the nordic center has always been top class, there are numerous possible venues for skiing events, and other events are pretty much always held at temporary or converted venues.

Unless Calgary's competition is completely limp, a bid advertising using 30-50 year old facilities, despite whatever upgrades might occur is not a very attractive bid. It doesn't speak well for this city either and is bad for our image and our own civic pride that we would be reduced to something like that versus building all new venues.

What I am pointing out about repeat hosts is showing that it is statistically unlikely that any host will repeat twice and that it is historically undesirable to the IOC. The only exceptions have been in times of extraordinary circumstance.

1. St. Moritz was cobbled together because of WWII

2. Innusbruck was awarded the games when they didn't even make a bid because the winning bidder in Denver pulled out after taxpayers voted against it. At that point, their infrastructure was only 12 years old and still viable and the IOC had few options.

3. Lake Placid was awarded the games the 2nd time when their only competition pulled out of the voting phase and they won uncontested as the only option

Judging from history, for Calgary to win the games anytime in the next half-century is very unlikely and IMHO, it would be a waste of time and tax dollars to make a bid. I'm not saying that Calgary will never have another Winter Olympics again, but it's not likely in the next 50 years, especially if the economies of Europe improve and development of cities in the Southern Hemisphere and Russia improve as well over those years.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Jetsfan

I have read somewhere that Quebec's mountains are not high or long enough for all the Alpine events.

Is this true or not?

Tremblant is not big enough to host a downhill. I was there one time while they were trying out a big ramp on top to try and get it big enough to meet FIS requirements for a World Cup and it didn't work out well.

Mont St Anne is smaller than Tremblant but I am sure they have some sort of plan like a big a$$ hole at the bottom or a big a$$ ramp at the top.

[Azure]

I say yes.

Didn't Vancouver turn a profit in the end? Sure it costs a lot up front, but the province can afford that.

Also, 20 years from now I'm sure there will have been improvements made in regards to a HSR link. It'll be a lot faster and probably cheaper.

[Rerun]

NO. Been there done that.

Way too expensive.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Azure

I say yes.

Didn't Vancouver turn a profit in the end? Sure it costs a lot up front, but the province can afford that.

Vancouver turned a profit? Hahahahahah

Please please please show me a source for this. I bet they lost millions and millions of dollars hosting the Olympics, and BC is going to be paying off that debt for a decade at least.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Vancouver turned a profit? Hahahahahah

Please please please show me a source for this. I bet they lost millions and millions of dollars hosting the Olympics, and BC is going to be paying off that debt for a decade at least.

Yep, they probably lost a lot of money. Added to that is the fact that the local businesses didn't see a large uptick in business either which is usually the most important things for hosting games - the boost to local economy.

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/cit...uring-olympics

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Vancouver turned a profit? Hahahahahah

Please please please show me a source for this. I bet they lost millions and millions of dollars hosting the Olympics, and BC is going to be paying off that debt for a decade at least.

Not with the Olympic Ta...errr Carbon Tax they introduced a couple of years ago. They covered their asses.

[GGG]

It depends on what people mean as profit. If buy profit you mean brought in sponsorship dollars and ticket sales in excess of total costs then no country has ever made profit on the Olympics.

However if you don;t include all of the government infrastructure spending as a cost then some like Calgary have turned a profit.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Absolutely. Lets have another olympics in Calgary. It is a great time for the city. Yes, take some of my taxes for it too.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Unless Calgary's competition is completely limp, a bid advertising using 30-50 year old facilities, despite whatever upgrades might occur is not a very attractive bid. It doesn't speak well for this city either and is bad for our image and our own civic pride that we would be reduced to something like that versus building all new venues.

What I am pointing out about repeat hosts is showing that it is statistically unlikely that any host will repeat twice and that it is historically undesirable to the IOC. The only exceptions have been in times of extraordinary circumstance.

1. St. Moritz was cobbled together because of WWII

2. Innusbruck was awarded the games when they didn't even make a bid because the winning bidder in Denver pulled out after taxpayers voted against it. At that point, their infrastructure was only 12 years old and still viable and the IOC had few options.

3. Lake Placid was awarded the games the 2nd time when their only competition pulled out of the voting phase and they won uncontested as the only option

Judging from history, for Calgary to win the games anytime in the next half-century is very unlikely and IMHO, it would be a waste of time and tax dollars to make a bid. I'm not saying that Calgary will never have another Winter Olympics again, but it's not likely in the next 50 years, especially if the economies of Europe improve and development of cities in the Southern Hemisphere and Russia improve as well over those years.

Repeat hosting has been historically rare becasue the sample size is so small. You keep ignoring the fact that there are limited options for North American hosts, and even more limited options for Canadian hosts. The IOC has repeatedly shown a desire to hold the games in NA on a relatively routine basis, and has also shown a lack of desire to grant hosting duties to the same country on a repeat basis (within the region). It's highly likely that the US will host another winter games in the next 12-16 years, meaning that NA will likely come back into rotation in a similar time frame. A return to the US would be unlikely at that point, leaving Canada to host. Canada has basically 3 options, Vancouver, Calgary and Quebec. Vancouver isn't going to get a repeat that quickly, and there are question marks to Quebec's ability to host at all. Guess who's left?

And where are you getting this 30-50 year old venue concept from? The whole point is that the core venues, arena and stadium, will be updated independent of the games (arena for sure, stadium maybe less likely) while other venues are either temporary (freestyle etc.) or would need to be new constructions for practically any host city (ski jumping). Calgary and area host world cup events in a number of disciplines, which means that those venues will be constantly updating and evolving. The bobsled track may have been built in the mid-80's but it's still new in the world of sliding sports, the most famous and revered courses are already 50+ years old. As I pointed out earlier, the oval is a potential issue, although it continues to be a world class facility at this point and will continue to be the site of world cup events for the foreseeable future. If there was any indication that the existing venues would fall out of use as elite facilities I"d see your point, but at this point that isn't the case.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by valo403

Pretty difficult to see the Winter games going to South America simply due to the weather. Beijing is in the Northern hemisphere, and Rio and South Africa are sufficiently warm to still host the games near the Northern summer months. Is there anywhere in South America that would have the ability to host alpine events in January - March? The IOC is all for moving things around, I don't think they'll be backing a winter olympics in the northern summer anytime soon though.

Winter games going to Rio? It's summer of 2016 that the olympics will be in Rio. That means June, winter in Brazil. Granted, the weather will still be relatively warm and probably at least over 15-20 degrees.

The only places in South America that could host alpine events in February are Chile and Argentina. In fact, it would probably be a shared bid as the best ski hills are near each other on the Argentina border. Chile (Valle Nevado, Colorado) and Argentina (San Martin de Los Andes, Bariloche).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Winter games going to Rio? It's summer of 2016 that the olympics will be in Rio. That means June, winter in Brazil. Granted, the weather will still be relatively warm and probably at least over 15-20 degrees.

The only places in South America that could host alpine events in February are Chile and Argentina. In fact, it would probably be a shared bid as the best ski hills are near each other on the Argentina border. Chile (Valle Nevado, Colorado) and Argentina (San Martin de Los Andes, Bariloche).

Huh? Beijing, Rio, and South Africa are the examples of southern hemisphere (as I pointed out Beijing is not southern hemisphere) nations that have previously, or are likely to, play host brought up by the previous poster.