Canadian at U.S. Border

[dissentowner]

The guy deserved everything he got, he was an idiot!

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

He said terrorist, and a terrorist is more than just a criminal...

exactly! it's one of those criminals who is one of those git dang muslin's!

Please tell me I don't need green text on this one...

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

If she was married to an American, she would have had a green card. I suspect we're not getting the whole story.

That isn't exactly true. My brother married an american and lived in Oregon right after they were married. He had to wait for his green card. Now I understand that every state is different. In Oregon he was told that the process would take more than a year due to a backlog. Within that year they moved to Montana and his application was put through in a matter of weeks. During that time he could not legally work in the US, which was frustrating for a young married couple. He ended up getting odd jobs for cash such as farm and construction work.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I see no problem with what the boarder guards did, or said.

We live in "free" nations yes. But we're asking to enter into theirs. If you want to come into my house, shouldn't I have the right to ask you whichever questions I want. "Why do you want to come in? Where are you going? Why do you want to go to my bathroom?" If you get lippy, I can deny you entry. If you won't want to be searched entering my house, then turn around and leave.

Now obviously the example is a stretch.

Yet I find it odd that people are arguing that the boarder guards have no reason or shouldn't ask whatever questions they want, and need reasons to search your car/person etc.

Why?

You're entering their country, if you don't want to be searched don't go. They defiantly, without question reserve that right. You're upset about them searching your car, yet you think they should let everyone in unchecked? Or need a reason to pull people over and search them? Criminals know to be polite too, so if I'm smuggling heroin or firearms and I'm polite I get a free pass?

Every once in a while you hear stories of criminals running from the law that cross the boarder, you think to yourself how does this happen? By them being polite and respectful. So to counter this people are randomly stopped and checked.

As another poster said 3+ terrorists a day really isn't much. A terrorist isn't just someone that hijacks airplanes, but really any criminal could meet the same definition.

The wife put her hands on a guard to restrain him from arresting her husband. WTF?! Yes she goes to jail for that. Rightfully so.

Buddy was agressive and got exactly what he deserved.

[shane_c]

I've only crossed into the US a few times but was usually given a lot of attitude trying to get into the US. The last time was several years ago (crossing from NB into Maine) and he asked me where I worked several times, each time I would tell him the same thing. Then he asked me what was in my trunk and I replied "a blanket and a shovel" which was the truth because it was winter. Anyway, he didn't like that answer and yells for me to open my trunk. What a surprise, there was a blanket and shovel in there.

[Flashpoint]

Considering how he talked to his wife, he sounds like a general rude hothead. All that attitude disappears pretty quickly once he's crying in a jail cell - classic bully persona. Maybe he should have thought about the consequences before getting all bent out of shape over nothing.

He should at least have the good sense not to walk into what's basically a police station and taunt the cops. I mean, they aren't hired because they are passive people...

[Cactus Jack]

I've definitely found them to be ruder on the US side. I had a large bruise on my face from playing hockey the day before and this guy grilled me for 5 minutes about it.

[DAN0383]

I've crossed many times and I've always found the US Border Guards to be alot nicer and easier to deal with than their Canadian counterparts... I guess we will all have different experiences with it.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

exactly! it's one of those criminals who is one of those git dang muslin's!

Terrorism - the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by DAN0383

I've crossed many times and I've always found the US Border Guards to be alot nicer and easier to deal with than their Canadian counterparts... I guess we will all have different experiences with it.

me too. i have had easier times getting into the states than coming back home to Canada

[Sylvanfan]

I cross at Osoyoos fairly often. Some times I've been over 3-4 times during the week. I find that I get a lot more questions on the US side. But as a visitor to that country, it's to be expected. Although they should be friendly to Canadians as I think we're keeping half the businesses in Oroville alive. Occasionally they'll get a bit stricter if the US is under a heightened security alert. In those cases I'll try to avoid going down as the lineup can be 20 minutes to get 5 cars accross. But I've never had a problem with either side except that the Canadian officials think I should be paying PST and GST on the Washington State tax portion of a purchase a couple of times.

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

me too. i have had easier times getting into the states than coming back home to Canada

There's a very limited list of dangerous things you can smuggle into the US. Beavers and Moose are the two that come to mind. But think of all the dangerous stuff you can smuggle into Canada, such as Mexicans, guns, and Jack in the Box.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

To anyone who is adamant that the Canadian border guards are a bigger pain in the ass than the American ones, I'd say that that is more a matter of preception than reality.

Think about it. For probably 99% of the people on this board you're dealing with Canadian customs officials when you're coming home. That means you're dealing with them when you're bringing products back (which can cause problems), and usually at the end of a vacation. Of course you're going to have worse experiences with them, you're probably in a bad mood because you just got off a flight, and all you want to do is go home, not answer a bunch of questions.

Dealing with the American guards on the other hand, you're usually at the start of your vacation, and you aren't trying to import anything (usually), so there is a lot less explaining to do. Also, if you're flying into/out of Calgary into the states, you deal with the US customs guys before you get on your plane, so you're likely excited and in a good mood, so of course you think dealing with them is easier. It's like any profession though, there are gonna be some folks that are nice people and good at their jobs, and there are gonna be a few jerks. Being Canadian or American has very little to do with it.


Honestly, I've never had a bad experience crossing a border, because I stick with the age old, rule that if at all possible the only things out of your mouth should be "Yes sir" or "No sir", and when they ask non-yes/no questions, be as clear and precise as you can.

[gargamel]

For the "purpose of the visit" question that they always ask, do you go into detail or just say "tourism"? What you say probably matters less than how you say it, but I never know which type of answer they're looking for with that. I used to always say exactly what I'd be doing, but recently I've just said "tourism" and it seems to get me through faster. I guess they figure I'd have a more elaborate story if I was up to no good.

[Potty]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Honestly, I've never had a bad experience crossing a border, because I stick with the age old, rule that if at all possible the only things out of your mouth should be "Yes sir" or "No sir", and when they ask non-yes/no questions, be as clear and precise as you can.

I am a regular border crosser, and I find the best way to get through quickly is to bore the absolute s@!% out of them by giving them every mundane detail of my trip.

Ex.

Guard:

"What is the purpose of your visit?"

Me:

"Well, I'm on my way to Seattle for the Mariners game. We'll probably stop on the way for a quick bite to eat, maybe at the casino buffet, not sure though. I would like to stop in for a couple spins at the roulette wheel, but I don't know if we'll have time. I also want to stop and check out a new BBQ, probably stop at a couple different places. My old one finally stopped working, too bad, I loved that thing. Then we'll head to the stadium early, I have a place I like to park but you have to get there about two hours before the game to get a spot. Probably just hang out there and get a hot dog, if I'm not too full from the buffet. blah, blah, blah, etc., etc.

They usually cut me off after about 30 seconds and wave me through with no other questions, hahaha.

[chris_yk]

Crossed the border for the first time since I was a kid this past February to go to Montana for a few days with a buddy and the American border guards were complete arses, pretty much made us feel bad for wanting to enter the country haha, and we were pretty good with their questions. Least they could have done is zip up the backpacks after they searched them. Canadian guys on the way back were way better, still not pleasant but much better.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Potty

Guard:

"What is the purpose of your visit?"

Me:

"Well, I'm on my way to Seattle for the Mariners game. We'll probably stop on the way for a quick bite to eat, maybe at the casino buffet, not sure though. I would like to stop in for a couple spins at the roulette wheel, but I don't know if we'll have time. I also want to stop and check out a new BBQ, probably stop at a couple different places. My old one finally stopped working, too bad, I loved that thing. Then we'll head to the stadium early, I have a place I like to park but you have to get there about two hours before the game to get a spot. Probably just hang out there and get a hot dog, if I'm not too full from the buffet. blah, blah, blah, etc., etc.

"So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Reaper

"So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."

"Gimme 5 bees for a quarter you'd say..."

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

To anyone who is adamant that the Canadian border guards are a bigger pain in the ass than the American ones, I'd say that that is more a matter of preception than reality.

I personally don't find the US guards (as a Canadian entering the US) too bad. They ask questions, I answer, and I'm usually on my way in a few minutes.

I fully agree with the perception, however. I have entered the UK with a Canadian passport (as a visitor) and a British passport. I rarely get asked anything at all with the British one, and with the Canadian one you get the usual "what are you here for, how long, where are you staying, etc."

The worst grilling that I ever got was returning to Canada on my UK passport (because my Canadian one was expired at the time). I was ready for it, but it certainly took a lot longer than if I was carrying my Canadian passport. Lesson learned.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Jolinar- are you certain about the search law with respect to border crossings? I tend to agree that a police officer cannot just pull you over and search your car while driving around town. But I thought one of the conditions of crossing the border was that you consent to a search.

Taking it another step, does that mean I have the right to refuse a search at the airport?

I'm just thinking the last few border crossings I have done; the closest thing the US border guard has done to asking was to say "pop the trunk."

I want to be clear here. The customs act authorizes the search of people, goods and conveyances when entering the country. There is most certainly a much lower threshold of reasonable expectation of privacy when crossing the border. Case law has determined that warrant less searches are reasonable at the border. R. vs Simmons is one of the guiding jurisprudence with regards to searches at the border.

Basically what I am saying is this. Customs officers do not require a warrant to search your vehicle. They can search your vehicle basically at any time but they still have to articulate why they searched your vehicle. They cannot just say "because I felt like being a dick". They would have to list the indicators as to why they decided to search the vehicle.

Just like when the G-8 was on. Every vehicle was searched entering Canada at the borders in Alberta and BC. The justification was because of increased security required because of the event. Or, the border sometimes does random projects. Sometimes they run projects on certain states where people are coming from, similar to check stops. There is always a reason why they search and if there isn't then the person could have something to fight if they went to court.

Section 98 of the customs act which authorizes the search states this:

98.(1) An officer may search
(a) any person who has arrived in Canada, within a reasonable time after his arrival in Canada,

(b) any person who is about to leave Canada, at any time prior to his departure, or

(c) any person who has had access to an area designated for use by persons about to leave Canada and who leaves the area but does not leave Canada, within a reasonable time after he leaves the area,

if the officer suspects on reasonable grounds that the person has secreted on or about his person anything in respect of which this Act has been or might be contravened, anything that would afford evidence with respect to a contravention of this Act or any goods the importation or exportation of which is prohibited, controlled or regulated under this or any other Act of Parliament.


Section 99 allows for the examination of goods, which would be anything you are bringing into the country such as your car or luggage.

Now when it comes to answering questions, that is a different story. There are two different legislative authorities when it comes to this. Questions asked under the customs act and questions asked under the Immigration Act. Someone seeking entry must answer all the relevant customs questions and all people seeking entry must answer truthfully ANY question asked for Immigration purposes.

So when the guy in question started to not answer the questions, he would have been in breach of Canadian law had he been entering Canada.

So basically, a customs officer can search you whenever they want but they also need to be able to articulate the grounds as to why. Because of case law that requirement is very low, but it still must be done.