ATV's and how dangerous they are.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Draug

At some point, people need to be responsible for themselves... more legislation and idiot-proof rules arent always the answer.

And for the 14 year old, that responsibility falls to the parent to teach their child to be self thinking by the time they are 14, and have the child realize a quad is something to be respected. A smart, responsible, intelligent 14 year old has nothing to fear on a quad unless they are still too lite to operate them properly.

So I take it you are against helmet rules in organized hockey?
Helmet laws for motorcycle riders?
Seat belt laws for automobile users?
Lifejacket laws for boaters?

... as for a 14 year old... a 14 year old is still a child with an immature not fully developed mind who on average, tends to do stupid things all the time because he or she did not think. There are exceptions but it is not the rule.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So I take it you are against helmet rules in organized hockey?
Helmet laws for motorcycle riders?
Seat belt laws for automobile users?
Lifejacket laws for boaters?

Yes, I guess, technically, I am against the RULES that force people to do the above. But, it should be noted I follow all of those rules; not because they are rules, but because it is the smartest course of action.

Why should it be up to society to implement rules to protect the most stupid of people? If a person is not smart enough to wear hockey helmets, motorcycle helmets, seat belts and lifejackets, then maybe that person isnt worth protecting after all.

Bringing this back to quads ... they are plenty safe if a person rides them within their ability and rides them in a way congruent with the current riding conditions.

There are lots of other options for a safer recreational experience if a given individual feels quads are too dangerous; 4x4's, dune buggys, etc. I dont see a need to detract from all the quad riders experiences to make the quad "safer" for the lowest common denominator rider. If the average quad buying Joe decides that quads arent safe enough, he wont buy them. When that happens enough, the industry will change on its own to attract more consumers.

[speede5]

Seat belts on quads are a bad idea. The rider is the biggest and most variable component affecting C of G and needs to know how to use this feature to navigate over uneven terrain.

Maybe it's time that education becomes a high priority for the manufacturers. Teach people what a quad can and can't do in a controlled enviornment. Rig up som test units that can be rolled while keeping the occupant safe so they can push the limits. Some street bike courses actually have bikes you can lean until they low side just to build rider confidence. They have braces to keep the rider from hitting the ground once the bike is out of control.

[speede5]

And does anyone know how what the death ratio is for name brand quads over cheap chinese imports. I bought the kids a miniquad and the suspension is so hard I can barely compress the springs. My ten year old flipped it on his third ride, trying to impress his cousin by sliding the back end out on our gravel road. The thing just bounced. No injuries other than pride but it has been parked since.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by speede5

Seat belts on quads are a bad idea. The rider is the biggest and most variable component affecting C of G and needs to know how to use this feature to navigate over uneven terrain.

Maybe it's time that education becomes a high priority for the manufacturers. Teach people what a quad can and can't do in a controlled enviornment. Rig up som test units that can be rolled while keeping the occupant safe so they can push the limits. Some street bike courses actually have bikes you can lean until they low side just to build rider confidence. They have braces to keep the rider from hitting the ground once the bike is out of control.

I agree that education should be a high priority, but unfortunately, if people aren't forced to do something, they usually don't. How many of us wore seatbelts before the seat belt law came into effect? Not very many... occasionally yes, but not 100% of the time. Now there is, if I recall correctly, a 95% compliance.

Same with hunter training. It was available when I first got my license. I didn't take it though.... I kind of learned on the job.... which in retrospect wasn't a very intelligent thing to do because we are talking about participating in a sport that sometimes gets people killed. Kind of like ATV'ing.

Perhaps operator licensing is the answer. ... and in order to get the licence you have to take an operation and safety course. Better to make your mistakes, and learn from them in a controlled environment than out in the field in the middle of nowhere.

[Rerun]

But aside from the education aspect...

Would it really be so bad if the stability standards (a standard set 21 years ago) were raised, even just a little bit, in order to make the quad a more stable machine?

Basically the atv industry has been operating under a set of standards that they themselves set 21 years ago when the ATV industry was just in its infancy.

If the automobile industry was allowed to operate like that we would still be driving vehicles with no seat belts, no air bags, and all the other safety features that are in vehicles today.

Plus cars would still be getting 10 miles to the gallon.


Industry doesn't change unless they are forced to. Change is expensive and companies are out there to make as much money as they can.... so of course they will resist and fight this.... and put out all the propaganda they do.... kind of like the tobacco industry.

[Dynamic]

Quads are safe in the right hands. I have had a quad for 3 years and never had a scratch. My friends, all of whom are alot more reckless than me, have all had quads flip on them and a few more serious injuries. Its all on the operator.

Many people buy quads to have fun and push the envelope. That is the issue.

[flamesfever]

They are dangerous, ruining the environment, and a fire hazard...and should all be traded in for horses.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

They are dangerous, ruining the environment, and a fire hazard...and should all be traded in for horses.

That certainly is one point of view with some valid points.

It certainly is a lot noisier and more crowded out there since quads started multiplying like rabbits.

How many of us have been out camping, and at 3:00 AM you've been woken up because some drunk a-holes have been out tearing around the campsite on their quads?

Also, sometimes on the weekend the trails are like a goddamn freeway out there with all the quads running up and down the trails. I long for the good old days when you could go for miles without crossing paths with another offroad vehicle.

In my opinion, quads have ruined the sport of offroading. Now everyone and their dog has one and they all bring them everytime they go camping for the weekend. It used to be that if you wanted to do some serious offroading you basically had to build your own. Now anyone with a few bucks in their pocket can go out and buy an atv. ... and go for it... with all their ignorance in tow.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Quads are safe in the right hands. I have had a quad for 3 years and never had a scratch. My friends, all of whom are alot more reckless than me, have all had quads flip on them and a few more serious injuries. Its all on the operator.

Many people buy quads to have fun and push the envelope. That is the issue.

A gun can be safe in the right hands too... but what would the world be like if anybody who had the cash could go out and buy a gun with no training at all... and all the guns had hair triggers, were full auto, no safeties, and 20 round magazines?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by speede5

And does anyone know how what the death ratio is for name brand quads over cheap chinese imports. I bought the kids a miniquad and the suspension is so hard I can barely compress the springs. My ten year old flipped it on his third ride, trying to impress his cousin by sliding the back end out on our gravel road. The thing just bounced. No injuries other than pride but it has been parked since.

Don't know the ratio...

but the Chinese can build these things and sell them in Canada because the manufacturing and safety standards are so ridiculously low.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Don't know the ratio...

but the Chinese can build these things and sell them in Canada because the manufacturing and safety standards are so ridiculously low.

They must think all they need to do is slap a bunch of stickers all over the quad and they don't have to worry from there on...and so far they've been right.

[flamesfever]

They put a sticker on the quad that warns only one person should be on the quad, and then build a seat that can accomodate 2 people.

[Rerun]

This..... is what a 2 seater should look like!

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

They are dangerous, ruining the environment, and a fire hazard...and should all be traded in for horses.

But they're such a good mechanism for darwin awards.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So you think the 21 year old stability standard (based on the rollover performance of the worst atv for sale at that time), that the industry currently uses, is just fine with you?

I agree, a lot of accidents are a result of operator carelessness. but.... wouldn't it be a good thing if the standard bar was higher? Increased track width? Lower center of gravity? Better suspension? .... all which would decrease roll overs and back flips?

I think the standard is just fine. I also think it varies between ATVs. I've driven many different kinds, and they all vary based on handling, safety, ability to rollover, etc, etc.

Again, I think like anything people who do not have the skills or experience required to handle a quad properly are getting into accidents, and as a result those of us who have driven quads for years without any seriously accidents are given a bad name. Or even worse, the quads are given a bad name.

Safety features can always be improved upon. While I did say that the standard was fine, I don't think there needs to be government regulation saying quad companies have to make the quads more 'safe.'

At some point people have to realize that there are 'things' out there that are dangerous, and people just need to be more careful.

Wearing a helmet should be based on personal responsibility, and not government regulation.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rerun

We used to hear that about cars all the time too...

If there was no roll bar, I would agree with you... but if there was a roll bar, I'd rather stay with the atv.

Except most quads don't have roll bars.

And if you have a lot of experience with quads, you will probably be able to jump clear as it rolls because you understand how far it can go before the thing tips. I have done this many times.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rerun

A gun can be safe in the right hands too... but what would the world be like if anybody who had the cash could go out and buy a gun with no training at all... and all the guns had hair triggers, were full auto, no safeties, and 20 round magazines?

Except guns can be extremely dangerous for 'other' people which is the only reason they are regulated.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rerun

This..... is what a 2 seater should look like!

And that thing probably costs around $20,000, while a normal quad runs around $10,000.

[Traditional_Ale]

Forget quads.

Mod Rangers.

I WISH this was my own truck.