The Future Looks Bright: Nemisz and Backlund win on Sunday

[Vulcan]

Some people are a joke. Writing off a junior player because he doesn't stand out to the casual viewer. There are hundreds of hotshot flashy juniors who can't even do well at the AHL level never mind the NHL. Lets give Nemisz at least one or two games in the AHL before deciding on his future.

[Pastiche]

But then we'd have nothing to talk about.

I defer back to my previous point, if Nemisz is your second best forward prospect I wouldn't necessarily say the future is 'bright'.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Some people are a joke. Writing off a junior player because he doesn't stand out to the casual viewer. There are hundreds of hotshot flashy juniors who can't even do well at the AHL level never mind the NHL. Lets give Nemisz at least one or two games in the AHL before deciding on his future.

I agree. People need to understand that teams need players for certain roles. Sure, Nemisz isnt going to go coast to coast and dangle like a Patrick Kane or Phil Kessel. However, if he can be a complimentary top 6 forward that plays a strong 2 way game, goes to the net and opens up room for more finesse guys like Backlund, Howse, etc down the room its a solid pick.

Are guys like Brouewer elite skill, no but they compliment finesse players and get the job done. IMO, Nemisz has the potenial for a Hartnell type role.

[Pastiche]

Realistically, I like the Wayne Primeau comparison.

Wayne Primeau is another big guy, not very swift-footed but still solid, and had a relatively productive junior career. Infact he scored at about the same rate as Nemisz when they were both 18. Looks as though Primeau is a lot tougher though with significantly more PIMs in junior. That's always been one criticism against Nemisz, pretty soft for a big guy. If Nemisz hasn't found that part of his game by this time he never will.

[Pastiche]

Actually, looking deeper it looks as though Wayne Primeau was a significantly better player in Junior if you take into account the quality of his team mates.

At 18, Primeau scored 96 pts (34g) for a PPG of 1.45. Primeau was far and away the most productive offensive player on his team. The next closest point getter was 75 points in the same amount of games.

Contrast to Nemisz, who at 18 scored 70 pts (34g) for a PPG of 1.37. However Nemisz was 4th in points on his team and third in PPG.

Looks as though Nemisz is potentially a better goal scorer but by all accounts is not as good a junior player as the mighty Wayne Primeau.

I really think expectations of this kid should be significantly tempered.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Actually, looking deeper it looks as though Wayne Primeau was a significantly better player in Junior if you take into account the quality of his team mates.

At 18, Primeau scored 96 pts (34g) for a PPG of 1.45. Primeau was far and away the most productive offensive player on his team. The next closest point getter was 75 points in the same amount of games.

Contrast to Nemisz, who at 18 scored 70 pts (34g) for a PPG of 1.37. However Nemisz was 4th in points on his team and third in PPG.

Looks as though Nemisz is potentially a better goal scorer but by all accounts is not as good a junior player as the mighty Wayne Primeau.

I really think expectations of this kid should be significantly tempered.

Stephane Yelle was also a pretty solid offensive junior player. I think people read too much into points for junior careers. Like I said, Nemisz wont be an offensive finesse, coast to coast player. He will be a 2 way forward, whose game is infront of the net. Besides possibly Bouma, the Flames lack this player in their prospect pool which is where I think Nemisz could shine for the Flames.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Are guys like Brouewer elite skill, no but they compliment finesse players and get the job done.

Well Brouwer did put up 49 goals and 102 points in his final year in junior (Nemisz didn't come close to sniffing 100 points). 22 goals and 40 points with the Hawks this year (and by all accounts, getting better all the time). We'll have to wait and see if Nemisz can produce those kinds of numbers at the NHL level.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

Well Brouwer did put up 49 goals and 102 points in his final year in junior (Nemisz didn't come close to sniffing 100 points). 22 goals and 40 points with the Hawks this year (and by all accounts, getting better all the time). We'll have to wait and see if Nemisz can produce those kinds of numbers at the NHL level.

I think you need to pro-rate the stats to actually compare apples to apples as Nemisz played quite a few games less than Brouwer.

Brouwer: 49G and 53A in 72 games played.
Nemisz: 34G and 36A in 51 games played.

Now, pro-rate GN stats for 72 games played = 48G and 51A = 99 points. IMO, its VERY close.

[bigtmac19]

[QUOTE=Pastiche;2525398]Realistically, I like the Wayne Primeau comparison.

Wayne Primeau is another big guy, not very swift-footed but still solid, and had a relatively productive junior career. Infact he scored at about the same rate as Nemisz when they were both 18. Looks as though Primeau is a lot tougher though with significantly more PIMs in junior. That's always been one criticism against Nemisz, pretty soft for a big guy. If Nemisz hasn't found that part of his game by this time he never will.[/QUOTE]


You have no idea if that's going to be the case or not.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I think you need to pro-rate the stats to actually compare apples to apples as Nemisz played quite a few games less than Brouwer.

Brouwer: 49G and 53A in 72 games played.
Nemisz: 34G and 36A in 51 games played.

Now, pro-rate GN stats for 72 games played = 48G and 51A = 99 points. IMO, its VERY close.

I sure hope that Nemisz is a lot better than Brouwer at the NHL level, I mean I like Brouwer; he plays with an edge...and teams really need that grit/sandpaper type player.


but the big difference between the two is where they were drafted. Nemisz was 25th overall. Brouwer was 214th. you'd better expect a bigger return on value at that number.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I sure hope that Nemisz is a lot better than Brouwer at the NHL level, I mean I like Brouwer; he plays with an edge...and teams really need that grit/sandpaper type player.


but the big difference between the two is where they were drafted. Nemisz was 25th overall. Brouwer was 214th. you'd better expect a bigger return on value at that number.

To get any NHL caliber player at 214th is unbelievable, let alone a player like Brouwer. However, to get a player like Brouwer out of the late first round would be viewed as a success in my eyes and probably many others.

[Pastiche]

You have no idea if that's going to be the case or not.

I guess it's not outside of the realm of possibility. However, do you have any examples of smash mouth players in the NHL who weren't those types of players in junior?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

I guess it's not outside of the realm of possibility. However, do you have any examples of smash mouth players in the NHL who weren't those types of players in junior?

Lots of players learn they have to adjust their game in order to fit in the NHL. Yelle and Primeau are two obvious examples.

An example of a smash mouth player in the pros who fought only an average of three times per year in the juniors while averaging ten fights per year in the AHL is our own Matt Pelech.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/2386


A lesser example is Nystrom who never fought in college and only once in his first pro year but now drops the gloves fairly regularly.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/3062

I'm not saying Nemisz is going to turn into a fighter but he's still a pretty skinny 200 Lb. on his 6' 3" frame.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by sevenarms

To get any NHL caliber player at 214th is unbelievable, let alone a player like Brouwer. However, to get a player like Brouwer out of the late first round would be viewed as a success in my eyes and probably many others.

and yet it happens quite a bit...

Brouwer would be a second or third round success for me personally. At pick 25, teams should still be looking at getting a top 6 player, not a 3rd line energy player...

point is, those types of players are available in later rounds.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Actually, looking deeper it looks as though Wayne Primeau was a significantly better player in Junior if you take into account the quality of his team mates.

At 18, Primeau scored 96 pts (34g) for a PPG of 1.45. Primeau was far and away the most productive offensive player on his team. The next closest point getter was 75 points in the same amount of games.

Contrast to Nemisz, who at 18 scored 70 pts (34g) for a PPG of 1.37. However Nemisz was 4th in points on his team and third in PPG.

Looks as though Nemisz is potentially a better goal scorer but by all accounts is not as good a junior player as the mighty Wayne Primeau.

I really think expectations of this kid should be significantly tempered.

Well that analysis means nothing if Primeau was the best player by far on his team. You do realize Nemisz has played on a stacked junior team almost his whole career? His numbers would be higher if he was the go-to guy on a crappy team.

Very hard to do a straight up analysis like you are attempting without taking into account different eras, different compositions of the team, different depth of the forward ranks.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

People who think they can make solid deductions solely from comparing players stats in junior years apart really have no idea how hockey works.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I agree. People need to understand that teams need players for certain roles. Sure, Nemisz isnt going to go coast to coast and dangle like a Patrick Kane or Phil Kessel. However, if he can be a complimentary top 6 forward that plays a strong 2 way game, goes to the net and opens up room for more finesse guys like Backlund, Howse, etc down the room its a solid pick.

Are guys like Brouewer elite skill, no but they compliment finesse players and get the job done. IMO, Nemisz has the potenial for a Hartnell type role.

If Nemisz turned into a Mike Knuble type of player would we be happy?

I'd say we would be.

That's his upside to me. He's a big guy who will only get stronger. Defensemen won't be able to physically overpower him. He's got soft enough hands to finish the garbage around the net. If he has the balls to stand in front of the net, I could see him being a great complimentary player.

Big guys with decent hands who will stand in front of the net are still a rare and extremely useful role if they have the skill and speed to play on the top two lines. See the impact that Byfuglien makes. See the impact that Knuble makes.

People expecting Pavel Bure out of Nemisz are going to be solely disappointed. But I think our team could really use the type of player that Nemisz appears to be trending into.

And clearly we could use the Pavel Bure type of player as well.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

If Nemisz turned into a Mike Knuble type of player would we be happy?

I'd say we would be.

That's his upside to me. He's a big guy who will only get stronger. Defensemen won't be able to physically overpower him. He's got soft enough hands to finish the garbage around the net. If he has the balls to stand in front of the net, I could see him being a great complimentary player.

Big guys with decent hands who will stand in front of the net are still a rare and extremely useful role if they have the skill and speed to play on the top two lines. See the impact that Byfuglien makes. See the impact that Knuble makes.

People expecting Pavel Bure out of Nemisz are going to be solely disappointed. But I think our team could really use the type of player that Nemisz appears to be trending into.

And clearly we could use the Pavel Bure type of player as well.

Perhaps Nemisz will be a David Moss type guy, but with better hands, better vision, better hockey sense and more stability on the defensive side of the puck.

If that's the case, I would expect a consistant 20 goal, 50 point player. I'd take that anyday.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

I guess it's not outside of the realm of possibility. However, do you have any examples of smash mouth players in the NHL who weren't those types of players in junior?

Krys Barch is the best example I can think of... he barely fought when he played here for the Knights and now he's one of the more active fighters in the NHL. That said I don't see Nemisz ever being a fighter type... he's just not that aggressive on the ice that would lead me to believe he'd be willing to start dropping the mitts constantly.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Some people are a joke. Writing off a junior player because he doesn't stand out to the casual viewer. There are hundreds of hotshot flashy juniors who can't even do well at the AHL level never mind the NHL. Lets give Nemisz at least one or two games in the AHL before deciding on his future.

Only Nemisz can decide his future. All posters here have done is voice their opinions of what they have seen. Nothing more. Would you be making your post if everyone was saying "OMG I've only seen him about 10 times but he's so fast and what incredible moves!!"? Would you be saying that we are a joke because we are touting this guy because he stands out to the casual viewer?

It's my opinion only and as I stated before from only a small sample size that he doesn't look like a major prospect. It means nothing at all in the big picture because Nemisz future is in his own hands. Hopefully he works really hard on his skating and adapts well to the professional game but the hockey world is littered with players like Nemisz that put up solid junior numbers on good teams that weren't fast or skilled enough to make the NHL.

If you haven't noticed CP is just a bunch of hockey fans voicing their opinion. Nemisz being a regular NHLer is no sure thing so the only thing you accomplish with comments like that is that in a few years the joke may be on you.