It's quite evident you know nothing about Islam. Being offended is not a choice everyone makes. If I walked up to you and spit in your face would that be your choice to be offended or not? I would be intentionally insulting you and you would have no choice but to be offended.
Seems I am not the only one who is mis-informed about Islam.
"The Qur'an does not explicitly forbid images of Muhammad, but there are a few hadith (supplemental traditions) which have explicitly prohibited Muslims from creating the visual depictions of figures under any circumstances."
-Wikipedia
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck
If I walked up to you and spit in your face would that be your choice to be offended or not? I would be intentionally insulting you and you would have no choice but to be offended.
I might choose be offended yes, but more importantly I would have been physically assaulted. I couldn't have you arrested for offending me, but could have you charged for the assault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck
Drawing pictures of Jesus or other Prophets is not offensive because no where in any holy book does it say that it is forbidden. Also you mentioned that Masturbation was seen as offensive by Muslims, but what you might not know is that it's also forbidden in Judaism, Christianity, and Catholicism.
Would you like to know my level of concern about those other groups feelings? So far however none of them have sought to prevent me from tickling my own fancy, or threatened myself or other masturbators with violence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck
I really don't care what you draw just don't make it seem like it's anything other than hate you are trying to spew.
This makes me think that you are unfamiliar with what hate really looks like.
If I walked up to you and spit in your face would that be your choice to be offended or not? I would be intentionally insulting you and you would have no choice but to be offended.
But I do have a choice on how I can react, and I do have the ability to choose if my offense is reasonable or not, and I do choose to give more leeway to someone giving offense because of circumstances.
I sympathize with both sides here. I agree that exercising free speech just for the purposes of antagonizing someone isn't something that I personally would normally do. But I also understand how the extreme reaction and apparent desire to limit someone else's freedom of speech (with violence if necessary) would prompt people to exercise that free speech even further.
I look at it this way, the reaction and drawing of the cartoons isn't against Muslims themselves, it's against a particular belief some hold.
In that light is it much different than a political cartoon? A cartoon can lampoon beliefs of liberals or conservatives without eliciting such a reaction.
And you are right about the swastika thing, maybe a flag burning day?
I'm being silly of course suggesting a day to offend everyone, but only mostly so.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
The fact is the fundies hadn't run out into the streets like a bunch of morons saying 'death to all those that mock Mohammad'....nobody would be doing this now.
And because of that I fully stand by every single effort made to draw any cartoon mocking Mohammad.
We already do it to mock Jesus and other religious groups. Why can't we do it to mock Islam?
It's quite evident you know nothing about Islam. Being offended is not a choice everyone makes. If I walked up to you and spit in your face would that be your choice to be offended or not? I would be intentionally insulting you and you would have no choice but to be offended.
Drawing pictures of Jesus or other Prophets is not offensive because no where in any holy book does it say that it is forbidden. Also you mentioned that Masturbation was seen as offensive by Muslims, but what you might not know is that it's also forbidden in Judaism, Christianity, and Catholicism.
I really don't care what you draw just don't make it seem like it's anything other than hate you are trying to spew.
Okay, one of the ten commandments is to not take the Lord's name in vain. Jesus Christ, I'm certain this happens thousands of time every hour. Goddammit, these people just can't help themselves. For Christ's sake, why don't they listen to themselves and understand that it offends all poeple of every religion that prescribes to the Old Testament.
Anyway, somehow Bible-thumpers got over it, still practice their religion miraculously after that particular commandment got thrashed all over the floor, and don't threaten violence (even the wacky fundamentalists - they just condemn you to hellfire and damnation - they don't actually attempt to send you there.)
The ultimate irony is that the primary complaint seems to be that this day is demonstrating intolerance toward the perceived / real Muslim issue with depicting the big 'M' and yet the purpose of the day is to challenge the intolerance (and sometimes lethal intolerance) of Muslims on free speech.
If the right to free speech is curtailed to the delicate sensibilities of some, soon everyone will have delicate sensibilities and the speech police are introduced. And then intention behind words will be analyzed (you said A, but really meant B). Now introduce the thought police.
Everyone, Muslims included, have the inalienable right to free speech. Debate the day, the point, the purpose, etc. But do not debate the right itself - some things need to be beyond debate. This is one.
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zk
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Would I have to worry about them crashing horses into skyscrapers?
~firebug
Nah, they had a more personal approach. They'd grab you, gut you and eat you. But you'd probably get a nice manicure, a beard trim and a haircut before they served you for dinner.
__________________
We may curse our bad luck that it's sounds like its; who's sounds like whose; they're sounds like their (and there); and you're sounds like your. But if we are grown-ups who have been through full-time education, we have no excuse for muddling them up.
[QUOTE=CaptainCrunch;2513293]Remember that Christian's were in an uproar over the Passion of the Christ because of its portrayal of their savior.
QUOTE]
The reason I remember this so well is because my folks took us to Universal Studios in L.A. the day they decided to protest that movie. Nothing like wading through a couple Million christian fanatics.
Growing up catholic (but more agnostic than anything these days), I don't care if people draw depictions of Jesus Christ.
Why?
Because it doesn't matter to me what others think of him. They can do whatever they choose to do, that's their right as a human being. The main point is that I know what he is what he stands for. And somehow, I don't think Jesus Christ is going to lose sleep at night knowing that someone out drew a picture of him that others may not approve of.
Simply ignore it. That's the best way. If people want to be intolerant, that's their choice. There's no need to get mad, or angry... if you want, simply pray for them. That's all that's required.
Tolerance is the best solution to this problem, since it's the type of response the cartoonist is not trying to make a point for.
So far however none of them have sought to prevent me from tickling my own fancy, or threatened myself or other masturbators with violence.
