T@T
With all respect that was purely your opinion. That is what I see as an atheist viewpoint - pure opinion. They attempt to make it sound technical and scientific but it always ends up as opinion.
Rather than an atheist viewpoint I prefer call it a realistic viewpoint, opinion yes but I'm fairly certain if I came up to you and told you "I am God" and proved it with the same "miracles" that Jesus used you wouldn't believe me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Fred
When confronted by the difficult questions such as explain the origins of the Big Bang the same answer arrives "I don't know becuse no one has figured it out yet"
I don't see any difficulty at all in that question, You keep asking this question know full well the answer... It happened but we don't know how yet.
The World Trade Centres weren't suppost to fall down from an aircraft collision either. After studying the data we now know why they fell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Fred
And people base a major life decision on that answer? And you claim we believe in fairy tales?
How ironic considering you run and hide from questions put forth about your fairy tales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Fred
ROFLMAO! Tell me another one. You're killing me.
Sure but you don't listen or respond.
Tell me about that dude that lived in a whale for 3 days.
If I may can I ask you how you arrived at your faith originally? Did you have an encounter with God or was this something which happened as a result of family backgound, attending church etc. Was it something expected of you or did you have a "road to Damascus experience"?
I grew up in a Christian home but came full circle. I abandoned my church background but came back on my own many years later.
I must go, I am being beckoned for dinner.
I am not here solely for your amusement and I am under no obligation to answer each and every question fielded to me.
No, but then it really isn't a discussion then is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Fred
I answer those questions which interest me.
I think that explanation should suffice.
That's your choice, being up front about it would have been helpful though since most people expect people posting in a discussion forum to engage in discussion. When they don't and instead just jump in and out and pick and choose what to reply to it's often viewed as disruptive. At the very least it undermines any points made since they aren't defended.
And it seems disingenuous since you accused me of basically the same thing earlier (sitting on the sidelines and shooting from the hip).
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
As to how I gained it, I was saved when I was seven. My mom was attending church at that point. I also went through a bit of a cycle in my early teens, though not a full abandoning it.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
You know what's hilarious about all of this? A priest started the big bang theory.
A Catholic monk was also the grandfather of modern genetics (Gregor Mendl), and his work has been used by many scientists since to help make a case for evolution.
A rare irony is that after Mendl published his work on inheritance, it was criticized, ridiculed and/or ignored by the science community for the next 35 years.
Religion isn't necessarily opposed to scientific discovery like some people believe.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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With all respect that was purely your opinion. That is what I see as an atheist viewpoint - pure opinion. They attempt to make it sound technical and scientific but it always ends up as opinion.
Try these on for non-technical and non-scientific-sounding:
Virgins don't have babies
Dead people don't come back to life and rise up into the sky
To believe these things happened is not only an opinion, it's an opinion based necessarily on faith and nothing else. So maybe "opinion" isn't something you should be dismissing outright.
Try these on for non-technical and non-scientific-sounding:
Virgins don't have babies
Dead people don't come back to life and rise up into the sky
To believe these things happened is not only an opinion, it's an opinion based necessarily on faith and nothing else. So maybe "opinion" isn't something you should be dismissing outright.
You're of coursing taking everything in the Bible literally.
You're of coursing taking everything in the Bible literally.
I don't think that is fair.
What?
According to yer man here we are not to take the virgin birth and the ressurection literally.
What is this Christianity you believe in?
It isn't anything like the one that I believe.
Without those two then it isn't God. It isn't miraculous.
I don't find it hard to believe that a God who could create the Universe could also create a Virgin birth and a ressurection. You forget that God created physics and natural science and isn't constrained by them.
I don't know about the God you believe in but my God is a big God, a powerful God and all things are possible through him.
Last edited by Smelly Fred; 05-17-2010 at 10:34 PM.
I mean more in the way of that it actually happened and isn't just a 'story' to teach something.
I really don't know. Just saying that I don't think everything in the Bible is 'literal.'
Could be wrong though.
Either the Bible is literal, in which case it is false because it claims things which have been proven wrong, or the Bible is fiction, in which case it isn't truth to base your life and beliefs on.
Either the Bible is literal, in which case it is false because it claims things which have been proven wrong, or the Bible is fiction, in which case it isn't truth to base your life and beliefs on.
While I agree with you, you can look at many pieces of literature and find that there is a story which holds is foundation in truth. So with a millennia old text, there is logically some truth to the stories, but in no way shape or form is the text the literal word of God as literal is defined. This distinction is actually very important. The bible doesn't have to be proven as literal truth in order to convey the appropriate message.
When I get nit picky with the God folk, I like to ask the literal word of God question in regards to the bible, then point out the different interpretations based on the version of the bible you're reading. That is inherently impossible.
Something that is key to remember is that the books of scripture, especially in the New Testament were not committed to actual text until generations after the death of the original distributor.
Furthermore, the texts are written with specific audiences in mind. There are contradictions in the books of Luke, Mark, and Matthew because they are written to identify Jesus as the king of different groups, therefore to indoctrinate the different groups to one common following.
What I really don't understand is how some people can believe that man is created in the image of God. You got it backwards people.
__________________
Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
...I'm confused as to how the big bang is a 'fairy tale'? I realize that it's a theory and not proven (and maybe never will be), but at least what we know/part of the theory is backed up by research.
What?
According to yer man here we are not to take the virgin birth and the ressurection literally.
What is this Christianity you believe in?
It isn't anything like the one that I believe.
Without those two then it isn't God. It isn't miraculous.
I don't find it hard to believe that a God who could create the Universe could also create a Virgin birth and a ressurection. You forget that God created physics and natural science and isn't constrained by them.
I don't know about the God you believe in but my God is a big God, a powerful God and all things are possible through him.
I actually don't have any problem with a God that could create the Universe but I have a few problems thinking that a religious God is real... heres why!
1) Jesus resurrected from the dead, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to about five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive although some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. and then last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to Paul.
So we can take it that it was ok to appear in front of people, so why hasn't he appeared in over 2000 years? Answer: because he never did appear, he was a man and it was just a story thats why.
2) Back in the days God always seemed to have a messenger, but God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to anyone. Why?: because reality is God doesn't speak or give orders to anyone other than the freaks that use his name to hide unspeakable acts he's committed or is just plain delusional. If someone tells you they speak to God be very afraid.
3) There are literally thousands of religions being practised today, If say your a Christian then your beliefs say you must reject Allah, Vishnu, Buddha, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in. Whats this?: Since a lot of these religions like to butt heads it has turned into massive racism and hatred that has produce many many un-called for deaths.
4) DNA, Many religious belivers use the existence of DNA as a proof for God's existence. The logic goes something like this: "DNA is information. The amount of information encapsulated in a single strand of human DNA would fill 400 volumes the size of an Encyclopedia Britanica, and this information contains an exact blueprint for creating a human being. This information did not write itself. The creation of information requires intelligence. The creation of an encyclopedia requires an author - a creator. God is the creator of the information in DNA." BUT: No even the clergy is admitting evolution before they get fried at the stake.
"'We completely accept and affirm the view of God as creator, but I accommodate evolution within that."
In other words we give in!
5) Would Almighty God be a sexist? If I was a woman I would want a new one. Footnote: I don't think I have to quote the bible on Gods sexism but if asked I'll be happy to post them.
6) Heaven. I found a funny story about heaven so I'll just quote it.
Quote:
If you talk to a Christian about heaven, you can clearly understand that the notion of heaven and everlasting life is imaginary. Each conversation will be different, but a typical conversation might go something like this:
Chris: Jesus transcends death and promises eternal life to all who believe in him! Lift up your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and he will give you eternal life!
Norm: How will he do that?
Chris: Have you ever read the book called "Left Behind?"
Norm: No.
Chris: You should! They have sold over 20 million copies of the book, because it is the truth! It describes exactly what will happen. One day the Lord Jesus calls his children home, and they are carried straight to heaven! Airplanes crash because their pilots have vanished. Cars run into phone poles. This is exactly what is described in the Bible.
Norm: The people completely vanish?
Chris: Yes. All that is left behind is their clothes, their jewelry and their hearing aids! The believers are transported directly to heaven!
Norm: Their naked bodies are transported to heaven?
Chris: Yes!
Norm: There are six billion people on the planet. They each weigh about 150 pounds or so. Are you telling me that God lifts a trillion pounds of human flesh off the planet in an instant?
Chris: Absolutely not! Only the believers are transported!
Norm: OK, half a trillion pounds?
Chris: Yes!
Norm: And where does this half a trillion pounds of flesh go?
Chris: To heaven!
Norm: To heaven... where is that?
Chris: It is in another dimension, of course! God lives in heaven!
Norm: How do all the bodies get to this "other dimension" called "heaven"? Do they float up into the sky and then travel through the vacuum of space?
Chris: No, silly! They are dematerialized and then rematerialize in heaven!
Norm: So you are saying that half a trillion pounds of naked human flesh are somehow "dematerialized" out of our universe, and then they "rematerialize" in "another dimension" called "heaven?" And the "dematerializing" process somehow distinguishes between natural human flesh and unnatural things like clothing and hearing aids?
Chris: Yes!
Norm: So... what if the person has artificial heart valves, a couple of stents and two titanium hip joints? Are those ripped out of his body and left behind with his jewelry?
Chris: Yes!
Norm: And what happens to that poor person, whose heart collapses and whose legs are now flopping around detached from his pelvis?
Chris: The book doesn't really talk about that... I imagine God would fix them up!
Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies are wracked with cancer and AIDS and emphysema?
Chris: God fixes them all up too!
Norm: And what about all the decrepit 80-year-old bodies?
Chris: God gives them new, young, beautiful bodies!
Norm: And what about all the people whose bodies have died and decomposed?
Chris: God gives them young, new, beautiful bodies too!
Norm: So why bother transporting the bodies of the believers to heaven? Why not just give everyone a new, young, beautiful body and leave their old bodies on earth?
Chris: The Bible says that your body is transported to heaven! It is right there in black and white in the "Left Behind" books! That is God's will!
Norm: OK, so heaven is full of people whose bodies or corpses or whatever have been "dematerialized" from earth, and then "rematerialized" in "heaven." And then the dematerialized/rematerialized bodies are discarded, and they are replaced with new, young, beautiful bodies?
Chris: Yes! Now you understand the power of the Lord Jesus Christ!
Norm: What happens next?
Chris: The believers all live in heaven in peace, harmony and joy for eternity!
Norm: What is heaven like?
Chris: We get to reunite with all of our dead friends and family members! We get to meet our ancestors for the first time!
Norm: Really?
Chris: Absolutely!
Norm: What about people like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin?
Chris: Everyone is there! You can talk to anyone all through history! Plus you get to meet God and Jesus. I can't wait to meet Jesus!
Norm: That sounds like fun. What else? Chris: Well, the streets are paved in gold! It says so in the Bible! And everyone has a big house! And you can eat whatever you want and not get fat! And really, you just do anything that makes you happy! Everyone is always happy!
It should be obvious: Heaven is imaginary. It is all completely imaginary, a fairy tale.
...I'm confused as to how the big bang is a 'fairy tale'? I realize that it's a theory and not proven (and maybe never will be), but at least what we know/part of the theory is backed up by research.
While I agree with you, you can look at many pieces of literature and find that there is a story which holds is foundation in truth. So with a millennia old text, there is logically some truth to the stories, but in no way shape or form is the text the literal word of God as literal is defined. This distinction is actually very important. The bible doesn't have to be proven as literal truth in order to convey the appropriate message.
When I get nit picky with the God folk, I like to ask the literal word of God question in regards to the bible, then point out the different interpretations based on the version of the bible you're reading. That is inherently impossible.
Something that is key to remember is that the books of scripture, especially in the New Testament were not committed to actual text until generations after the death of the original distributor.
Furthermore, the texts are written with specific audiences in mind. There are contradictions in the books of Luke, Mark, and Matthew because they are written to identify Jesus as the king of different groups, therefore to indoctrinate the different groups to one common following.
What I really don't understand is how some people can believe that man is created in the image of God. You got it backwards people.
Did you just described a fiction novel......blasphemy!!
...I'm confused as to how the big bang is a 'fairy tale'? I realize that it's a theory and not proven (and maybe never will be), but at least what we know/part of the theory is backed up by research.
Kyussei
I never said that the Big Bang is a fairy tale. In fact I believe in the Big Bang.
What I did allude to was that atheists have no answer for the origins of the Big Bang ergo no answer for how life started i.e. they don't know.
Christianity has an answer - God. They don't.
That is a pretty big step of faith that they make. They base their "faith" on an answer of "I don't know".
Kyussei
I never said that the Big Bang is a fairy tale. In fact I believe in the Big Bang.
What I did allude to was that atheists have no answer for the origins of the Big Bang ergo no answer for how life started i.e. they don't know. Christianity has an answer - God. They don't. That is a pretty big step of faith that they make. They base their "faith" on an answer of "I don't know".
Actually you never asked the question bolded in red. Isn't a sin to lie?
Then it was worded or quoted really oddly or something. This thread is getting pretty long winded after all and it seemed like you were calling it a fairy tale at first (in response to atheists calling the Bible fairy tales, that is).
God is an answer based on belief. The big bang is a scientific theory. Belief ain't enough in science. Theories are not based on myths, or legends, or a bible or anything like that. The big bang theory is based on research, but not all of the Universe is understood, so we can't entirely explain it - yet.
The answer 'I don't know' isn't exactly satisfying - but it's an honest answer. For some, belief is enough. Others want facts and proof...
Actually you never asked the question bolded in red. Isn't a sin to lie?
I see I shall have to educate you to the definition of the word ergo T@T
It means a conclusion has been derived or a result so I didn't have to say directly that there was no answer for how life had started because that would be the logical conclusion hence the term ergo. So no lie just ignorance on your part.
ergo [(er-goh, ur-goh)]
Latin word meaning “therefore”; usually used to show a logical conclusion: “Birds are warm-blooded animals, and reptiles are cold-blooded animals; ergo, no bird is a reptile.”
You can thank me now for adding to your ongoing education.
