Alberta Liberals: vote (for us) and get $50

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would contend that those who don't vote couldn't tell you the difference or the effect of various schemes.

If I had my preference I would perfer just a simple elected dictatorship. No MP's, No Parliment, No question period. Get rid of all the crap and make 1 person 1 vote directly for the leader.

Some systems for oversite would have to be added but the whole concept of MP's / MLA's representing their constituents is farcical.

So then go to rep-by-pop. STV is a good compromise between local representation and effective representation.

Your elected dicatatorship better be IRV...

I contend that most people know that FPTP wastes a lot of votes, and the campaign that would be required to change the system would create a lot of awareness that would go a long way towards encouraging more people to vote under a better system. Anyone who's gone to school in Alberta has been taught the advantages and disadvantages of FPTP and Rep-by-pop. STV is just an extension of that learning.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

So then go to rep-by-pop. STV is a good compromise between local representation and effective representation.

Your elected dicatatorship better be IRV...

I contend that most people know that FPTP wastes a lot of votes, and the campaign that would be required to change the system would create a lot of awareness that would go a long way towards encouraging more people to vote under a better system. Anyone who's gone to school in Alberta has been taught the advantages and disadvantages of FPTP and Rep-by-pop. STV is just an extension of that learning.

Rep by Pop is the worst system as it ensures minority governments and minority governments mean parties try to buy eachothers support by funding eachothers stupid pet projects.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

Rep by Pop is the worst system as it ensures minority governments and minority governments mean parties try to buy eachothers support by funding eachothers stupid pet projects.

I'd rather minority support lead to minority government than giving an artificial majority to a government with only a plurality of support.

Minority government might promote parties funding each other's pet projects, but what about a majority funding its own pet projects? I'd also argue that highly regionalized representation leads to pork, and rep-by-pop does away with that.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

It isn't $48 million. It's actually $4.8 million.

A $50 tax credit translates into about $5 back on your return.

Actually at that level it equates to 75% or $ 37.50 back.

Source: http://www.elections.ab.ca/Public%20Website/718.htm

It is more than charitable donations. Been one of my pet peeves for sometime.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Actually at that level it equates to 75% or $ 37.50 back.

Source: http://www.elections.ab.ca/Public%20Website/718.htm

It is more than charitable donations. Been one of my pet peeves for sometime.

Wow, I didn't know that. I thought political donations reduced your taxable income, not your tax. Are you sure the credit for voting would fall under these rules though? To me, that's not clear (it's a very brief article), but you might know something I don't.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Actually at that level it equates to 75% or $ 37.50 back.

Source: http://www.elections.ab.ca/Public%20Website/718.htm

It is more than charitable donations. Been one of my pet peeves for sometime.

I don't think you understand what the Liberals are proposing

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I don't think you understand what the Liberals are proposing

Yeah, you're right. Now that I have re-read it; it looks like they are calling for a straight $50.00 credit not a $50.00 political tax credit.

It is actually explained better here: http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/albe.../13920711.html

“It would count as a provincial tax credit so it’s calculated at the lowest rate,” Hennig said. “You can claim $50, but only keep 10 per cent of that, so you’ll get $5 back.

[malcolmk14]

So the $48 million that the Globe and Mail threw out there wasn't anywhere near accurate.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

So the $48 million that the Globe and Mail threw out there wasn't anywhere near accurate.

From yesterday's Edmonton Journal.

In 2008, about 40 per cent of the province's 2.25 million eligible voters cast ballots. If they all voted and got $50 each, it would cost $112.5 million, which the Liberals say is a tax credit, not a new expenditure.

Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz0nuZKeW00


It seems the distinction between a normal tax credit and what they are proposing is that it is a "refundable tax credit". Normally tax credits are "non-refundable" and only used to reduce your tax payable by a calculated percentage.

I'm not familiar with any other refundable TC in Alberta. So I don't have an example to compare it to. Maybe some our PC accountants are familiar with other provinces could shed some light on this. I am beginning to get the impression the full $50.00 would be refunded to individuals regardless of whether or not they have taxable income.


Oh and for a comical look at the Liberal 12-Step program....http://www.corymorgan.com/?p=457

[peter12]

Originally Posted by starseed

Thoughtless, infantile anti-liberal ribbing aside, this is a good idea.

Give a little tax money back to taxpayers who do their civic duty.

The majority of people used to do it for free. We shouldn't start treating citizenship like it's mercenary. Dumb, dumb idea.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by SebC

I'd rather minority support lead to minority government than giving an artificial majority to a government with only a plurality of support.

Minority government might promote parties funding each other's pet projects, but what about a majority funding its own pet projects? I'd also argue that highly regionalized representation leads to pork, and rep-by-pop does away with that.

See, the thing is... you want majority governments. They get things done, they ensure proper decorum in the House. That's the beauty of FPTP, it translates strong pluralities into strong majorities. Everyone still gets to fight the same election. You lose, it's mostly your fault.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by peter12

See, the thing is... you want majority governments. They get things done, they ensure proper decorum in the House.

You do? I think minorities and coalitions etc are fine as well. I think majorities are fine too. I think to help ensure a healthy democracy, you need all of these things.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

From yesterday's Edmonton Journal.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz0nuZKeW00


It seems the distinction between a normal tax credit and what they are proposing is that it is a "refundable tax credit". Normally tax credits are "non-refundable" and only used to reduce your tax payable by a calculated percentage.

I'm not familiar with any other refundable TC in Alberta. So I don't have an example to compare it to. Maybe some our PC accountants are familiar with other provinces could shed some light on this. I am beginning to get the impression the full $50.00 would be refunded to individuals regardless of whether or not they have taxable income.


Oh and for a comical look at the Liberal 12-Step program....http://www.corymorgan.com/?p=457

The comical thing in that article is that your husband is deriding the Liberals for putting forward policies that might not work in their favour, but instead make things better for the electoral system as a whole. Man the Liberals sure are evil trying to encourage voters, limit corporate sponsorship and that type of thing.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

You do? I think minorities and coalitions etc are fine as well. I think majorities are fine too. I think to help ensure a healthy democracy, you need all of these things.

You want a constant, hyper-partisan election cycle like we have now?

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by peter12

You want a constant, hyper-partisan election cycle like we have now?

If that is what the electorate wants/feels like at this point, yes. I am sure at some point we will go to a period where some party has a number of majorities in a row. I think it all evens out in the long run, and both bring unique perspectives.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

If that is what the electorate wants/feels like at this point, yes. I am sure at some point we will go to a period where some party has a number of majorities in a row. I think it all evens out in the long run, and both bring unique perspectives.

Yes, I agree with that. We're probably in the middle of some big demographic changes that are affecting the national outcomes of elections.

[CaptainCrunch]

I get truly depressed that we need to basically bribe people to get off of their fat a$$es and practice one of the tenants of creating responsible government.

Instead of bribing I think that if you decide not to vote because you can't go two blocks to spend 4 minutes having your say in govenment, then you should lose the right to vote, your income tax rate should increase to 60% and the government should then have a right to assign you the stinkiest dirties job of cleaning camp toilets in banff with your bare hands. And you have no say in it.

[mykalberta]

I would much prefer a 100 tax credit given out or something to that effect instead of cash.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

Rep by Pop is the worst system as it ensures minority governments and minority governments mean parties try to buy eachothers support by funding eachothers stupid pet projects.

Or it forces minority parties to force with other parties in order to get their stuff passed ensuring that a broad range of opinions have a hand in deciding what direction the country goes.

[Azure]

Takes you a half-hour to vote the first time cause they gotta register you and all that paperwork stuff. The 2nd time it takes you 5-15min depending on where you vote.

Its one day every 4 years. Probably less than 0.01% of your time is taken up.

Therefore I don't agree with any incentive for people to vote. It will only be abused.