The Prince of Pot Extradited

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Yes - they did choose. I think the laws are there to try and dissuade people who often choose poorly. Society and law makers like to protect people who can't protect themselves.. from themselves.

No laws will protect people who can't protect themselves.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Sure it does. We know the law, and we know the consequence of the law. The law (imo) is an interpretation of society's overall morality. In this particular instance, I think the law is misguided, and does not necessarily reflect society's overall morality (obviously a very tough thing to determine).

I guess my point was, there are people who say 'good riddance' to this guy because he 'broke the law', and for no other reason. Morally, he didn't do anything wrong, he put seeds in an envelope and attached a postage stamp. Legally, he's going to jail. There's a disconnect there that I'm not comfortable with... and I know, I know, my comfort level is inconsequential 'because the law is the law', end of debate. It's just too bad that that's the case...

I would argue the morally content of your quote, if he was selling seeds that ended up in the hands of organized crimes and criminals who sell dope to kids and teens. I would find it very immoral if his seeds were putting money into pockets of gangs who then go out and buy guns to defend their sales territories.

Yes, the prohibition laws in the states and canada may be wrong. And there's probably a better solution to it. But right at the moment there's not, and organized crime is heavily involved in growing and selling this stuff, and heavily involved in practices that destroy lives.

So putting the law aside, Marc Emery can probably not tell you to whom these seeds went to. Marc Emery can not guarantee that some drug gang bought those seeds through a cut out or two, and then made profits by growing and selling that stuff.

You and myself can argue until we're blue in the face about whether its moral to outlaw that stuff or not, but in this case, right now, dope is a major revenue stream for these gangs, it allows them to recruit and buy guns and the backs of misery.

If Marc Emery was selling seeds exculusively to organizations that use grass to help the sick thats fine. But there are probably 1.6 million reasons why he's not.

And thats my moral problem with it.

If you legalize it, you can reduce criminal involvement in the dope trade, even thought I'm still not sure that this would happen. But right now, they're through and through on that stinking business.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I don't care which country is being discussed. American law, Candian law, fair enough. Sure... they're different. Doesn't invalidate anything I've said here... I haven't cited any laws in particular from either country.

Yes I understand that.

I agree with you on most counts. Just here, the guy clearly broke the law, and because of that Canada and the US, including the DEA has no choice.

I'm all for legalized pot, and I firmly believe that one can smoke pot, drink, even smoke and still be successful.

I've never liked the fact that the government gets into the business of telling people what they should and shouldn't do.

The reason I want it taxed is because people who smoke a lot of pot have a greater chance of becoming a burden on society later on down the road.

[Pinner]

The war on seeds what a joke

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Pinner

You might be surprised to find out who smokes weed.

Why would I? You say that like I live in a bubble. I went to high school and university too. I would not be surprised to find out Stephen Hawking has a bong built into his wheelchair.

I was talking about two guys who are the epitome of James Franco in Pineapple Express.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

No laws will protect people who can't protect themselves.

And maybe that law turned 1 kid away from trying it - some might consider that a success.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

And maybe that law turned 1 kid away from trying it - some might consider that a success.

Very romantic, but completely unrealistic and a catastrophic waste of tax payer's money.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

And then we have all the great people who have used it (doctors, lawyers, architects, musicians, presidents, etc).
What if the law was enough to scare president Obama away from trying it, maybe he would never have become the great person that he is today.

You might reply saying that it probably wasn't marijuana that caused Obama to become the person he is today, well then you must take the same logic with your HS friends.

Chances are the reasons someone screwed up his life has a lot less to do with smoking pot than it does with simply making bad choices.

Obama didn't become President because he smoked pot, nor did it in any way contribute to his success as a person. But, if you turn that around, people who smoke a lot of pot probably have a greater chance of screwing up their life. In many cases it goes hand in hand, and you could probably find some correlation.

Certainly not the REASON someone fails at life, but it can be a part of it. Which is in no way possible for someone who is successful.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Very romantic, but completely unrealistic and a catastrophic waste of tax payer's money.

Quite possibly but I'm sure it's more than one.

I actually believe pot should legal - the money we could generate off it as a nation would be staggering.

[jar_e]

Its kinda funny that the states probably have a little more of a better way of handling drug offences on the minor end (ie. just possession or paraphernalia) in the sense that they can simply give you a fine/ticket.

Would make much more sense here...even if you don't legalize it.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

And maybe that law turned 1 kid away from trying it - some might consider that a success.

What have you been smoking ???

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I was talking about two guys who are the epitome of James Franco in Pineapple Express.

It sure seemed like you thought pot was to blame...

[peter12]

The only thing that turns me off of pot decriminalization is the annoying pot apologists. Aren't there like 38547 million issues that are more important than protecting a bunch of stoners from the criminal justice system?

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Pinner

It sure seemed like you thought pot was to blame...

I like to speed and I wish it wasn't illegal but I understand why it is. Some people would mess it up for everyone by crashing their crotch rocket into poles.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Yes - they did choose. I think the laws are there to try and dissuade people who often choose poorly. Society and law makers like to protect people who can't protect themselves.. from themselves.

Sorry, but that's a really poor argument to stand on. What do you think is more harmful to a person's psyche long term; smoking pot or going to jail? In my eyes, people are responsible for themselves, not legislators. If the government wants to become the overbearing mother of its citizens, then there needs to be no discrepancies and alcohol, tobacco, fast food, etc should all be criminalized.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sorry, but that's a really poor argument to stand on. What do you think is more harmful to a person's psyche long term; smoking pot or going to jail? In my eyes, people are responsible for themselves, not legislators. If the government wants to become the overbearing mother of its citizens, then there needs to be no discrepancies and alcohol, tobacco, fast food, etc should all be criminalized.

As much as we like to say that people are responsible to themselves, right now there are boundries to how far those limits can go based under the law.

At the end of the day we ask our elected officals to make laws and recind laws, but we give them the responsibility to make those laws for us by proxy.

If recinding the dope laws were really that important, there would be far more pressure on the government to do it.

but to me people don't think its that crucial of an issue right now.

If it was then the green grass party would have won a protest seat or two in Parliment.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sorry, but that's a really poor argument to stand on. What do you think is more harmful to a person's psyche long term; smoking pot or going to jail? In my eyes, people are responsible for themselves, not legislators. If the government wants to become the overbearing mother of its citizens, then there needs to be no discrepancies and alcohol, tobacco, fast food, etc should all be criminalized.

ok - I agree going to jail would be worse for you psyche - but you wouldn't have to worry about jail if you obey the law. So I think no pot and no jail would be the best answer.

I don't disagree with the logic about other bad habits. I wish they were illegal; they would help me with my waistline.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If you legalize it, you can reduce criminal involvement in the dope trade, even thought I'm still not sure that this would happen. But right now, they're through and through on that stinking business.

I guess I remain unconvinced as to why organized crime would still be involved. Are they involved in the production and distribution of alcohol in a major way? I'd wager 99% of alcohol in Canada is purchased legally, and taxed. I see no reason for marijuana, once legalized, to remain controlled by organized crime. I also don't see how it would be any more available to minors than it already is. I guarentee you every single Junior High in Calgary already has a problem with this. Lets legalize, tax, and then use the proceeds to educate the children. Right now as far as I can tell we just stick our heads in the sand and tell kids not to do it... a failed approach.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

The only thing that turns me off of pot decriminalization is the annoying pot apologists. Aren't there like 38547 million issues that are more important than protecting a bunch of stoners from the criminal justice system?

The biggest problem is that I would be willing to bet upwards of 90% of pot users wether occasional/recreational or even daily actually have no problem with it.

Much like the guy who comes home and has a beer or two after work, some people like to have a cup of tea and blaze a J. Now compare this to the guy who comes home from work everyday to six beers or more and the guy who comes home and rolls a joint that would make Bob Marley pause.

The problem pot smokers are the ones who drive high, blaze before work, during work, on the way home from work, when they get home from work, before dinner, after dinner, before movie/xbox, during movie/xbox, after movie/xbox, before bed, after sex...

Also the ones that start when they're young and in school still and aren't bright to begin with. They're the ones who are really eff'd. I used to be the guy I just described but I am lucky I guess I'm quite intelligent and motivated (read: massively hyper and into music) and managed to grow out of it.

Now compare problem pot head to problem drinker who goes for a beer at lunch, right after work for some, then drives home grabbing a six pack and ends up passing out drunk by 9pm. I've also never heard of pot head beating up his wife or kids.

[Temporary_User]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

ok - I agree going to jail would be worse for you psyche - but you wouldn't have to worry about jail if you obey the law. So I think no pot and no jail would be the best answer.

I don't disagree with the logic about other bad habits. I wish they were illegal; they would help me with my waistline.

It is exactly this type of thought that scares me.