Mclean's - Do atheists care less?

[Charcot]

Let me start by saying that I am an atheist. However I think some have faith that religion is all bad. I do think that there are some positive aspects to organized religion although I have no faith in any God(s). I think that the world might be better without religion, but I certainly do not know that. Here is an example of better behaviour from church goers compared to atheists.

May 10 Mclean's magazine has a brief editorial about charity giving.

"Interestingly, this past January saw the launch of a new charity specifically designed to disprove the alleged parsimony of non-believers. The Foundation Beyond Belief aims to “encourage and demonstrate the generosity and compassion of atheists and humanists.” So far, its 447 members have raised $18,760. Or about as much as 18 churchgoers give in one year."

I thought this was interesting. Perhaps organized religions do encourage a different view of responsibility to the rest of the community.

[Claeren]

Atheists are naturally skeptical.

The same thing that leads them to think God is a social construct leads them to believe that most charities are a joke and most of the money goes into the pockets of the people running the charity.


The fact that church-goers give more money/person is moot if virtually all of that money goes back into maintaining the church itself.

Even when money does go to those in need it is often spent in bringing in expensive outsiders instead of utilizing local labour or in converting people instead of actually helping them.


I think atheists/humanists would support legislation that strictly enforces where the money goes when you donate to any charity, but of course churches and religous groups would fight that sort of positive reform to the death....





Claeren.

[Torture]

In my experience Atheists are just as passionate about Religion as others, if not more so. They're just arguing that their shouldn't be any.

Personally, my view is that Religion teaches good things - love thy neighbour, compassion, accepting others, etc. Religion doesn't tell people to get into Holy Wars and all that nonsense.


This is going to be a fun thread.

[peter12]

In my own considerable experience, I'd have to say that the most charitable people tend to be religious.

[Temporary_User]

Without reading the article (sorry), but don't a lot of atheists donate and help others without being a part of an organization?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Charcot

Let me start by saying that I am an atheist. However I think some have faith that religion is all bad. I do think that there are some positive aspects to organized religion although I have no faith in any God(s). I think that the world might be better without religion, but I certainly do not know that. Here is an example of better behaviour from church goers compared to atheists.
.

One thing about religion is that it is a great tool for promoting reproduction and spreading our genes into new populations (2 very important mechanisms for evolution). From an evolutionary standpoint, it has been pretty useful among our species.

[MarchHare]

From the article:

But if religion is simply a licence for bad behaviour, how does one explain the mammoth gap between the charitable acts of those who believe and those who do not?

It can be explained quite easily, actually. Do religious people tend to give more than atheists because they are genuinely more charitable, or do they give more because it's demanded by their church (tithing, collection basket, etc.) and/or they think it's requirement for a good afterlife (i.e. entrance to heaven, avoidance of hell)?

If it's the latter case, is it even appropriate to say that religious people are more generous if they're making donations for self-serving reasons? I wouldn't be surprised that if you discount donations given to one's own church or other religious organizations, then there isn't much of a difference between believers and non-believers with respect to the amount they donate.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Charcot

"Interestingly, this past January saw the launch of a new charity specifically designed to disprove the alleged parsimony of non-believers. The Foundation Beyond Belief aims to “encourage and demonstrate the generosity and compassion of atheists and humanists.” So far, its 447 members have raised $18,760. Or about as much as 18 churchgoers give in one year."
I thought this was interesting. Perhaps organized religions do encourage a different view of responsibility to the rest of the community.

When the Pope gets his fat ass off the billions of dollars in assets he's sitting on . . . . . there might be a point in all that.

Cowperson

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by peter12

In my own considerable experience, I'd have to say that the most charitable people tend to be religious.

In my own considerable experience, I'd have to say the opposite is true.

This is a screwy editorial to begin with. Is donating to the church considered charity?

[Devils'Advocate]

Are we including donations TO THE CHURCH? For stuff like paying staff and buildings and stuff? And filling up the coffers of the Pope?

I give to Amnesty, OPRIG, Plan Canada and the United Way. I think those more worthy than where most tithings go. Why would I give to something called the "Foundation Beyond Belief" when there are so many other good charities out there?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Torture

In my experience Atheists are just as passionate about Religion as others, if not more so. They're just arguing that their shouldn't be any.

Personally, my view is that Religion teaches good things - love thy neighbour, compassion, accepting others, etc. Religion doesn't tell people to get into Holy Wars and all that nonsense.


This is going to be a fun thread.

How many examples would you like?
-Peasants' War
-Schmalkaldic War
-Thirty Years War
-Just about every war fought between England,Scotland and Ireland
-Jihad uses religion to kill

Hell even the Vatican supported the genocide of the Jews in WWII

Religion has been and is the single most murderous organizations the planet ever seen and also the most stupid, how people can believe in fairy tales written in the days when people beleived the earth was flat and the sun and stars revolved around us is beyond me.

[worth]

It always boggles my mind how many athiests are just as fanatical about their position as religious people are.

[Finny61]

As someone who would back religion before atheism I don't know that I agree with the article. I know a lot of people who are religious and give of themselves in all aspects (that means charities outside the church as well). I also know of many who are not among an organized religion and they are good charitable people, some of which happen to lead a lot of volunteer groups. Religion might help give people charitable perspective but ultimately the type of person, how they were brought up, social influences, and their life experiences will drive how they act, religion would only be one facet, only one you happen to agree with or not.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by T@T

How many examples would you like?
-Peasants' War
-Schmalkaldic War
-Thirty Years War
-Just about every war fought between England,Scotland and Ireland
-Jihad uses religion to kill

Hell even the Vatican supported the genocide of the Jews in WWII

Religion has been and is the single most murderous organizations the planet even seen and also the most stupid, how people can believe in fairy tales written in the days when people beleived the earth was flat and the sun and stars revolved around us is beyond me.

Pretty much all those wars can be broken down to being about resources of one type or another where religion was used to rally. One group has something that another wants and in some of the cases, those groups are defined by religion. It's no different than how today, countries can start wars and say it is for spreading "freedom" or "democracy", when the real cause is to control a valuable resource. Even if religion didn't exist, people would still find ways to divide their populations.

I would argue that the secular concept of nation states has had a much worse impact than religion when it comes to wars.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by worth

It always boggles my mind how many athiests are just as fanatical about their position as religious people are.

Why is that?

"Fanatical", by definition, means "irrational zeal". How is buying into secular scientific fact "irrational"?

[Torture]

I referring to how religions teach good things regardless of corruption in religious organizations and extremists. Charity being one of those things that religion idealizes.

No matter your stance on religious organizations, it's hard to argue with any of these teachings, and other religions have similar ideals.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's

[Devils'Advocate]

#1 - The first commandment has lead to numerous wars and hatred all around.

I always thought #2 and #3 were rather vain. What kind of supreme being would get mortally offended by a sculpture or someone saying his name out of frustration or anguish.

#4 really screwed up shopping when I lived in Nova Scotia. Would have been nice to go shopping on Sunday. I guess they finally came to their senses.

I always thought #10 hilarious. It's just super fine to own slaves, just not to covet your neighbour's. Oi.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Torture

I was more referring how religions teach good things regardless of corruption in religious organizations and extremists.

No matter your stance on religious organizations, it's hard to argue with any of these teachings.

It's pretty easy to argue with 1,2,3 and 4. Or just dismiss them as nonsense.

What's wrong with sculptures? I can't say a particular word when I'm in a bad mood? I have to consider one day of the week "holy"? 5,6,7,8 and 9 are common sense. 10 is impossible, or, taken literally, useless. I don't know anyone who has an ass or a donkey or a female servant.

[MarchHare]

No matter your stance on religious organizations, it's hard to argue with any of these teachings.

Say what? I can strongly argue against at least half of those.

In most Western democracies, only three of the ten commandments (murder, theft, and perjory) are illegal, and we are granted many rights that explicitly run counter to several of them (eg. freedom of religion vs. commandments one, two, and four, freedom of speech vs. commandment three, etc.).

[T@T]

Originally Posted by worth

It always boggles my mind how many athiests are just as fanatical about their position as religious people are.

If you have an 18 year old kid who still believed in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or Jack and the Beanstock would you have a fanatical approach to try an set them straight so they don't look stupid?

These fairy tales are no different than Jesus walking on water,Mary was a virgin,Jonah living in a whale, the great flood...etc. All fairy tales. and every religion has them.