Update: Calgary MP Shory Accused in Giant Mortgage Fraud

[albertGQ]

If this was going on at BMO, you can bet the exact same thing is going on at the other big Canadian banks as well.

[Wookie]

Where's the list of people? I want to read the names, I'm sure I must know at least one or two people

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Stop letting people into the country so easily? Problem solved.

your analysis of this situation is actually worse than your hockey analysis. Bravo

[fundmark19]

ahahah the guy who did the scams on puckluck's friend is the heavyweight champion of a pretend wrestling organization. I wish I could be a heavyweight champ of a pretend wrestling organization.

[Wookie]

What is wrong with the people who posted the majority of the responses on that main article. "Expected from Alberta" "Alberta, just like the states" "Everyone in Calgary with their Hummers and Beemers"

Are people really that ignorant? Seriously?

I make rude/stupid comments all the time - but always in jest. Those comments are just weird. I can't really comprehend how an individual could be so bitter about something. It's actually a little bit scary.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Wookie

Where's the list of people? I want to read the names, I'm sure I must know at least one or two people

Speaking of which, has anyone heard from troutman lately? I keed I keed.

[fredr123]

We've had a bunch of straw buyers come through our doors over the past couple years after the house of cards came crashing down. These kinds of schemes are not limited to BMO by any means.

Many times the straw buyers are young and enticed by the opportunity to make a few thousand dollars for little to no work. "We put the house in your name, help you qualify for a mortgage (make up job references and income information, if necessary). We'll make the payments on the mortgage for 6 months and then sell the property. You get your payment, we get our increase in value. It's all good."

It's not a grey area or favour so much as it is an outright misrepresentation. You obtain title and the mortgage by misrepresenting some or all of the following: your income, your employment history, the source of your downpayment (if any), your intention to take possession of the home, your intention to use it as your principal residence, your intention to not use the property as a source of revenue. Without fudging some or all of this stuff, you aren't going to get title and you are not going to be granted a mortgage.

The mortgage payments are often not made, the mortgage goes in to foreclosure and the straw buyer is left on the hook often personally liable for the deficiency.

The scam has been around for a long time. I suspect when housing prices were rising rapidly several years ago, the scammers probably really did sell the properties in order to realize that profit as well (rather than let the mortgage go into foreclosure). When the market tanked, there was no incentive to actually sell the property. As more of these straw buyers found themselves in foreclosure proceedings, the incidence or likelihood of their reporting the circumstances of the scheme to the authorities likely went up.

In my experience, the police have always been reluctant to investigate these frauds. Often times we will hear "This is a civil matter, take it up with the courts."

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by fredr123

In my experience, the police have always been reluctant to investigate these frauds. Often times we will hear "This is a civil matter, take it up with the courts."

I hate this attitude. Defrauding someone out of their credit rating harms people in many cases worse than a lot of typical 'criminal acts' that the police would take seriously. Personally I would much rather suffer a beat down by a gang clad in Oilers jerseys than have someone assume my identity and destroy my credit into bankrupcy. My wounds would heal many times faster than my credit to which I rely on for employment among other things.

[Muta]

Now that I know how this works (even though I still don't fully understand it), I believe I know people who have gotten EXTREMELY rich this way. Like... having a 'Maserati as your spare car' type of rich.

In this scam, though, don't you have to pay back the mortgage at some point anyways? If so, where's the incentive to pocket the extra $50k? And why are you not allowed to put these mortgages under your own name? I'm not too familiar with this type of stuff, I've just never been interested enough to find out.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Muta

Now that I know how this works (even though I still don't fully understand it), I believe I know people who have gotten EXTREMELY rich this way. Like... having a 'Maserati as your spare car' type of rich.

In this scam, though, don't you have to pay back the mortgage at some point anyways? If so, where's the incentive to pocket the extra $50k? And why are you not allowed to put these mortgages under your own name? I'm not too familiar with this type of stuff, I've just never been interested enough to find out.

Simple, the perps pocket the difference between the mortgage and the actual sale price and when the mortgage goes sour the staw buyer's on the hook. In most cases I would imagine that the straw buyer would have to declare bankrupcy in a negative equity situation.

The lawyers and real estate agents involved manipulate documents to make it appear that the property sold for more than it actually sold for. The bank's non the wiser.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Muta

Now that I know how this works (even though I still don't fully understand it), I believe I know people who have gotten EXTREMELY rich this way. Like... having a 'Maserati as your spare car' type of rich.

In this scam, though, don't you have to pay back the mortgage at some point anyways? If so, where's the incentive to pocket the extra $50k? And why are you not allowed to put these mortgages under your own name? I'm not too familiar with this type of stuff, I've just never been interested enough to find out.

You bail on the house, bank seizes it (than sells it to re-coup the money) you lose your initial investment and afterward payments (the people actually owning the house would lose this) and your credit rating goes down the toilet.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I hate this attitude. Defrauding someone out of their credit rating harms people in many cases worse than a lot of typical 'criminal acts' that the police would take seriously. Personally I would much rather suffer a beat down by a gang clad in Oilers jerseys than have someone assume my identity and destroy my credit into bankrupcy. My wounds would heal many times faster than my credit to which I rely on for employment among other things.

I can appreciate their reluctance to dip their toes in the world of white collar crime. It's all numbery and documenty and stuff. It's also less likely to give the officers a feeling that they are making their world a safer place. There's a lot of reasons that policing emphasizes violent crimes but I wish these other areas were given some attention too.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Muta

Now that I know how this works (even though I still don't fully understand it), I believe I know people who have gotten EXTREMELY rich this way. Like... having a 'Maserati as your spare car' type of rich.

In this scam, though, don't you have to pay back the mortgage at some point anyways? If so, where's the incentive to pocket the extra $50k? And why are you not allowed to put these mortgages under your own name? I'm not too familiar with this type of stuff, I've just never been interested enough to find out.

If you put the mortgage under your own name then you bear the risk of foreclosure proceedings if payments aren't made. If you get some goof to put his name on title, then he's the one left holding the bag.

[BlackEleven]

I wonder if they got the idea from the Sopranos. They ran a similar scam on that show from what I remember.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I can appreciate their reluctance to dip their toes in the world of white collar crime. It's all numbery and documenty and stuff. It's also less likely to give the officers a feeling that they are making their world a safer place. There's a lot of reasons that policing emphasizes violent crimes but I wish these other areas were given some attention too.

Well that's the problem with having 'gun and badge' police types investigating fraud.

[anyonebutedmonton]

Just had a vague memory of a guy I knew from my soccer team explaining how he was getting like 6 grand for doing nothing and it had something to do with him signing a mortgage. Seemed a little fishy to me at the time but when you are 18 yr old 6 grand seems like one hell of an incentive. This would have been in like 2004 or 2005 so most likely the house appreciated enough at that time that they actually did sell the house in the end and didn't lose money. Haven't talked to him for years but wow crazy.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Wookie

Where's the list of people? I want to read the names, I'm sure I must know at least one or two people

Not sure if the video is online, but I first heard about this last night on the National (CBC). At one point, if I remember correctly, they had a shot of a list of the purported scam mortgages with names (I'm assuming the straw buyers?). And I also believe that they had a quick shot of the legal document (? - not sure what it was exactly) but put a big list of a large number of names that are accused. So if the video is online, then you might be able to see some of them anyway.

Here, try this link: http://www.cbc.ca/video/player.html?...pid=1485504432

If that doesn't work click on the story (1st post in this thread) and then watch the video (top right side). Ball park time in the story of 1.55 to 2.05 or so for the list of people accused (? - right terminology?); the other list is near the start of the story.

Originally Posted by Wookie

What is wrong with the people who posted the majority of the responses on that main article.......Those comments are just weird. I can't really comprehend how an individual could be so bitter about something. It's actually a little bit scary.

I think this happens more than you would think. Not too long ago I saw a Globe and Mail article online that they actually had to cut off the comments and remove them completely due to what people had put down. I can't remember what the topic/article was exactly however.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by anyonebutedmonton

Just had a vague memory of a guy I knew from my soccer team explaining how he was getting like 6 grand for doing nothing and it had something to do with him signing a mortgage. Seemed a little fishy to me at the time but when you are 18 yr old 6 grand seems like one hell of an incentive. This would have been in like 2004 or 2005 so most likely the house appreciated enough at that time that they actually did sell the house in the end and didn't lose money. Haven't talked to him for years but wow crazy.

Same here I have a friend who may have been involved in something like this too. I'm hoping that the houses appreciated and they sold, and that he didn't get caught up in it when the markets went south.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Speaking of which, has anyone heard from troutman lately? I keed I keed.

I haven't been served with anything!

Types of Mortgage Fraud:

http://www.lawsocietyalberta.com/fil...ud_2009May.pdf

[Muta]

Thanks guys. I understand it now.

Unless the straw buyer is in on it, which defeats the purpose of the scam if he/she is, I don't see why the straw buyer wouldn't immediately go the authorities if this happens. Basically, the scammers screw their financial livelihoods over, so they have every reason to tell someone when this happens. If this is all coming out now, maybe I'm confused as to why this has not come to the forefront alot earlier...