Christian Terrorism - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cheese · 09-26-2005, 03:49 PM

Now dont get me totally wrong here, I support and admire those in the Christian community who try to do good for others, but Im wondering if some of you see some of the double standards evolving today.

Acts of Christian terrorism are terrorist acts carried out by extremist Christian groups and zealous followers. Examples include the abortion clinic bombing by Eric Robert Rudolph, said to be a member of the extremist Christian Identity movement and murder by Christians of physicians who provide abortions, such as James Charles Kopp's shooting of Dr. Barnett Slepian.
Why wasnt Eric Rudolph, a devout Christian, labelled as a Christian Terrorist?

Why should we let Christians off the hook for actions that would see any other religion condemned across the world? Are Christians free to do as they please without condemantion as long as they see fit and can find a Bible phrase that allows them this priviledge?

The Christian world see no difficulty in labelling adherents of other religions. The Air India bombing was the work of Sikh Extremists, September 11th Muslim Extremists. In all of these cases its common to see the free world call on the leaders of those religions to denounce the acts, and sometimes they may be compelled to do so.
So why isnt anyone calling upon Christian churches to condemn people like Rudolph above or James Knopp, Timothy McVeigh...or hey what about Pat Robertson!
In Oklahoma City they first blamed the bombings on Muslim Terrorists before they found out it was Christian Tim McVeigh.

Noone calls for Campaign Life to be banned even after the shootings of Doctors and the bombing of the Morgantaler clinic in Toronto, whereas many Tamil and Muslim groups have lost rights or are forced to prove they have no terrorist association to maintain status.

Why the double standards...why dont you call for the condemnation of the Christian church for terrorism that we would find reprehensible among other religions?

RougeUnderoos · 09-26-2005, 04:02 PM

Timothy McVeigh is pretty consistently called a terrorist and I'm sure any reasonable non-lunatic Christian leader would condemn what he did as terrorism. I'm sure the pope did.

I don't know anything about the other people you listed but I would think all reasonable people of any faith (or none at all) consider people like that to be criminals and terrorists.

It's hard to condemn an entire religion because of the acts of a few. I don't like it when we do it so I can't really do it just because some people do. Hypocrisy of course is not good but I'm not sure I see it in the examples you provided.

Clarkey · 09-26-2005, 04:06 PM

Your daily christianity rant?

There is no "Christian Church". Christianity is divided among many different denominations, you shouldn't group them all together.

Christians aren't free to do what they want without condemnation. Some could even accuse you of condemning them right now. Christians are one of the most criticized groups out there.

You mentioned a bunch of fringe stuff that doesn't represent the vast majority of Christians.

Who is sticking up for Timothy McVeigh? How many Christians support the murdering of abortion doctors? I don't know what kind of circles you are in but I've never heard this type of stuff being condoned by Christians.

Did McVeigh bomb that federal building in the name of his religion? No, therefor he is not a christian terrorist but simply a terrorist who may or may not have been a christian.

Thunderball · 09-26-2005, 04:11 PM

I'm with Clarkey... there's so many different christian sects, far more than any other religious denomination.

To try to group all christians is like saying all Canadians are murderers cause one person killed another, or all French are thieves cause a French person stole something.

Catholics, Anglicans and Lutherans are probably the three most similar and I don't think you'd see someone from any of those sects authorize anything remotely related to terrorism.

Dislike organized religion all you want, but it has done a great deal for humanity, and properly used, can continue to do so.

Claeren · 09-26-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderball@Sep 26 2005, 03:11 PM
I'm with Clarkey... there's so many different christian sects, far more than any other religious denomination.

Are you guys serious? You actually believe that? Yikes...

habernac · 09-26-2005, 04:14 PM

he has a point though. There's no question that the above mentioned abortion doctor killer was a Christian extremist. So why don't they call him a Christian terrorist? Is that title only reserved for muslims?

Dislike organized religion all you want, but it has done a great deal for humanity, and properly used, can continue to do so.

And it also can cause immeasurable amounts of pain and suffering.

MarchHare · 09-26-2005, 04:27 PM

Cheese's point isn't that all Christians are terrorists or extemists or even that they support the actions in his given examples. His point is that the media will call terrorists "Muslim Extremists" but you rarely if ever hear the phrase "Christian Extremists". The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists or extremists, and yet frequently people in the West call upon them to denounce the actions of the minority. Why aren't Christian leaders held to the same standard? Where's the call for leaders of various different Christian denominations to denounce the violent acts of their extremists, like abortion bombers and others who murder in the name of the Christian God?

Cheese · 09-26-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarkey@Sep 26 2005, 06:06 PM
Your daily christianity rant?

There is no "Christian Church". Christianity is divided among many different denominations, you shouldn't group them all together.

Christians aren't free to do what they want without condemnation. Some could even accuse you of condemning them right now. Christians are one of the most criticized groups out there.

You mentioned a bunch of fringe stuff that doesn't represent the vast majority of Christians.

Who is sticking up for Timothy McVeigh? How many Christians support the murdering of abortion doctors? I don't know what kind of circles you are in but I've never heard this type of stuff being condoned by Christians.

Did McVeigh bomb that federal building in the name of his religion? No, therefor he is not a christian terrorist but simply a terrorist who may or may not have been a christian.

ya it is...so what?
I think March Hare got the point though...you obviously saw red and didnt understand what was written.
I said that I support and admire those in the Christian community who try to do good for others, ...

regardless and quite frankly, I could care less what a bunch of Christians would call me or think of me anyways...so what has that got to do with anything? It certainly has nothing to do with my post.

Patek23 · 09-26-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Claeren@Sep 26 2005, 03:13 PM
Are you guys serious? You actually believe that? Yikes...

Yup, The second being Muslims with Sunni's and the other 2-3 classes (my muslim friend tried to teach me all of them, but its more diffocult than some would assume). But yes Christianity is the most divided religion.

V · 09-26-2005, 04:39 PM

As a Christian, I completely agree with Cheese. These 'Christians' are no better than any other person who performs similar horrible acts, regardless of their race or beliefs.

I would be more than happy if Christians were more vocal about these people, it might go a long way in separating the crazies from the rationals.

Clarkey · 09-26-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheese@Sep 26 2005, 10:34 PM
ya it is...so what?
I think March Hare got the point though...you obviously saw red and didnt understand what was written.
I said that I support and admire those in the Christian community who try to do good for others, ...

regardless and quite frankly, I could care less what a bunch of Christians would call me or think of me anyways...so what has that got to do with anything? It certainly has nothing to do with my post.

You didn't make an intelligent point, what you wrote is barely coherent.

That was just a random salvo ignorant half-arsed attempt of a jab at christianity, admit it.

Next time put a little more thought in.

troutman · 09-26-2005, 04:51 PM

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Cheese · 09-26-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarkey@Sep 26 2005, 06:49 PM
You didn't make an intelligent point, what you wrote is barely coherent.

That was just a random salvo ignorant half-arsed attempt of a jab at christianity, admit it.

Next time put a little more thought in.

right...just like your half arsed jab at me? Dont make me laff. If you dont get the jive dont do the dance.

If you dont like my jabs...stay away, they obviously hit somewhere below your belt, and quite frankly I could care less about that too.

Clarkey · 09-26-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheese@Sep 26 2005, 10:54 PM
right...just like your half arsed jab at me? Dont make me laff. If you dont get the jive dont do the dance.

If you dont like my jabs...stay away, they obviously hit somewhere below your belt, and quite frankly I could care less about that too.

Who said I'm offended by your poorly thought out rant.

I was more pointing out how lame it was.

Cheese · 09-26-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarkey@Sep 26 2005, 07:02 PM
Who said I'm offended by your poorly thought out rant.

I was more pointing out how lame it was.

well obviously you are the only one...so again...if you dont want to talk about it...dont click on the thread titles.

transplant99 · 09-26-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Are you guys serious? You actually believe that? Yikes...

Yes...wholeheartedly.

Your leftist-bias BS is so blatent, (you know the one you claim doesnt exist?) it detracts from points you attempt to make. It's quite sad actually.

I can name 10 different derivitaves of christianity, please feel free to match them in any other religion.

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarkey
Did McVeigh bomb that federal building in the name of his religion?

Uhhh...yes? Otherwise, where did he get his beliefs from? He was, a Catholic, and no im not saying all Catholics have his beliefs, but its pretty clear that his nonsensical reasoning for bombing the crap out of a whole bunch of innocent people, was faith based. His faith? Christianity.

Please feel free to dispute that!

flamingchina · 09-26-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by transplant99+Sep 26 2005, 11:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (transplant99 @ Sep 26 2005, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Yes...wholeheartedly.

Your leftist-bias BS is so blatent, (you know the one you claim doesnt exist?) it detracts from points you attempt to make. It's quite sad actually.

I can name 10 different derivitaves of christianity, please feel free to match them in any other religion.

<!--QuoteBegin-Clarkey
Did McVeigh bomb that federal building in the name of his religion?

Uhhh...yes? Otherwise, where did he get his beliefs from? He was, a Catholic, and no im not saying all Catholics have his beliefs, but its pretty clear that his nonsensical reasoning for bombing the crap out of a whole bunch of innocent people, was faith based. His faith? Christianity.

Please feel free to dispute that! [/b][/quote]
I could name them with buddhism
*ducks* although honestly, I could, but still, christianity has more sects than it does. A lot of buddhisms sects are more so regional than anything else. (tibetan, chinese, thai, etc.)

Clarkey · 09-26-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

At McVeigh's trial, the United States Government asserted that the motivation for the attack was to avenge the deaths of Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, who he believed had been murdered by agents of the federal government. McVeigh called the casualties in the bombing "collateral damage" and compared the bombing to actions he had taken during the Gulf War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

The Catholic Church and the Branch Davidians are not associated with each other.

RougeUnderoos · 09-26-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by transplant99@Sep 26 2005, 05:14 PM

Yes...wholeheartedly.

Your leftist-bias BS is so blatent, (you know the one you claim doesnt exist?) it detracts from points you attempt to make. It's quite sad actually.

I can name 10 different derivitaves of christianity, please feel free to match them in any other religion.

I hate to jump in the middle of this little discussion, but what is this about? Are we discussing which religion is more divided? Is it a leftist BS slant to think that other religions are also divided?

There is plenty of division to go around. How many different interpretations are their of the Quran? The Bible? How many different Islamic sects are there? Christian?

Probably dozens for both?

Is it a contest? The way you say "match that" makes me think it apparently is.

MarchHare · 09-26-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Uhhh...yes? Otherwise, where did he get his beliefs from? He was, a Catholic, and no im not saying all Catholics have his beliefs, but its pretty clear that his nonsensical reasoning for bombing the crap out of a whole bunch of innocent people, was faith based. His faith? Christianity.

Please feel free to dispute that!

McVeigh's motivation had nothing at all to do with his religion. He was p*ssed at the US government for using what he perceived to be unjust force at Ruby Ridge and Waco. His attack was a direct retaliation for that, which is why he targetted a building used by the federal government. He referred to the children he killed and others he deemed innocent as "collateral damage", just as the US military does when they kill civilians. He was certainly a terrorist and an extremist, but I wouldn't call him a religious zealot.

[Edit]
Beaten to it by Clarkey.