Ontario judge orders website to reveal identity data on anonymous posters

[Tower]

If the Judge makes him an order he can write the judge a bill. That bill can pay for lots of maintenance for said board. Win Win!

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by photon

Why couldn't they run the whole trial and then after it's been determined compel the disclosure? The "defendant" could be represented by crown lawyers as well, I mean what other evidence could be brought forward than what was said, it seems the defence could be run without the actual John Doe.

So the $5000 to pay the legal fees of the plaintiff, is that because they refused to provide the details to begin with? It's obviously not "punishment" for allowing the comments to be posted to begin with.

Just trying to translate this decision into implications for this forum and what kinds of things could put us at risk.

Easy part first, the costs award has nothing to do with the outcome of the trial. By awarding costs at this stage of the process, one could draw the conclusion that the arguments for withholding the names were frivolous and that the judge feels that the point wasn't worth arguing. In that sense the Judge is punishing the forum for wasting the court's time with bad arguments. But even that may not be the case. Sometimes costs of interim applications are deferred to the outcome of the overall trial, sometimes the court just automatically awards the winner even on interim matters. The decision that Fredr123 posted may include discussion of the reasons for costs. I haven't read it yet.

As for your bigger question, there are probably a few reasons why deferring the disclosure may be a bad idea. One major one is that the Defendants may be publishing statements in other fora that should be brought into evidence. Furthermore, if there is strong enough evidence, the plaintiff could be seeking other interim relief that depends on knowing who the defendants are, such as injunctions, discovery of records, and even things like Anton-Piller orders (although in a case like this I doubt if an Anton-Piller order would be granted).

There may be other reasons I have not articulated, but this isn't really my area of expertise.

[fredr123]

This judgment seems really focused on the Ontario rules of civil procedure and the onerous disclosure requirements contained therein. Other cases that the defendants relied on were often instances where a party sought the disclosure of records from a third-party not otherwise involved in the action. I would agree that there should be a high standard to meet to order someone who isn't part of a court action to reveal their records.

Here, however, the information is being sought from the defendant. All parties to litigation, whether in Ontario or Alberta, are obligated to disclose all relevant documents unless they are privileged. The information sought by the plaintiff is pretty clearly relevant to the proceedings. The defendants did not do much to argue that the information is privileged but tried to rely on precedent and public policy arguments. Those failed to persuade the judge that the standard disclosure obligations should not apply.

As far as costs go, there was little discussion of that point in the decision. Both parties submitted an outline as to costs (which weren't specified in the decision). The plaintiff was successful and received his costs. As onetwo_threefour pointed out, costs on interim applications like these are often payable at the ultimate conclusion of the matter but the judge in this case made them payable now and went so far as to prohibit the defendants from taking any further steps until those costs are paid.

[fredr123]

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1501128

A Kingston-area couple who run a conservative online forum will appeal a court decision ordering them to hand over personal details about eight anonymous posters at the heart of a defamation lawsuit.



Connie and Mark Fournier, who run the online forum Freedominion.ca,said yesterday that they will be in Ottawa today to file the necessary papers to formally appeal a decision handed down exactly one week ago.

[fredr123]

The Freedominion.ca decision came down in the appeal: http://www.freedominion.com.pa/images/appeal_ruling.pdf

And commentary here: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5005/125/

Originally Posted by Michael Geist

The court ruled that these principles [from the Federal Court of Appeal in Sony BMG] are similarly applicable to defamation cases, establishing the following criteria in defamation cases involving requests for disclosure of information on anonymous posters:

1. whether the unknown alleged wrongdoer could have a reasonable expectation of anonymity in the particular circumstances
2. whether the Respondent has established a prima facie case against the unknown alleged wrongdoer and is acting in good faith
3. whether the Respondent has taken reasonable steps to identify the anonymous party and has been unable to do so; and
4. whether the public interest favouring disclosure outweigh the legitimate interests of freedom of expression and right to privacy of the persons sought to be identified if the disclosure is ordered.

The Appellants were successful on appeal and the matter is to be remitted to a different judge for reconsideration.

[GreenLantern]

This would be why threads about the personal lives of players, for the most part, get locked fast.

It would suck if Bingo had to pay for some idiots mistake... if he hasn't already.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Why do people have to hid their identity on the internet? If you have an opinion why be anonymous about it?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Why do people have to hid their identity on the internet? If you have an opinion why be anonymous about it?

You're kidding right?

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by Locke

You're kidding right?

No. I am not kidding. It seems that too many people hide behide their anonymous id and then think they can say anything they want. If they were not anonymous then it would clean up alot of this internet crap.

[Pastiche]

Free Dominion is a complete and utter cesspool of human filth. That needs to be said.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Free Dominion is a complete and utter cesspool of human filth. That needs to be said.

Why is that?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

No. I am not kidding. It seems that too many people hide behide their anonymous id and then think they can say anything they want. If they were not anonymous then it would clean up alot of this internet crap.

Sure, and everything everyone ever says should be a matter of public record to be misconstrued and taken out of context whenever someone felt it suited them.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why is that?

Have you read it?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Why do people have to hid their identity on the internet? If you have an opinion why be anonymous about it?

That's rich coming from JustAnotherAnonymousGuy. Why do you not post under your real name?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Have you read it?

yup.

Dont agree with a lot of their positions, but they are certainly entitled to them...and its apparent not every person there is the exact same in their thinking/views.

Doesnt make them a "cesspool of human filth" however.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Wow.

In the US, countless suits like that have been slapped down numerous times.

There's actually a pretty high profile US case that resulted in individuals posting defamatory comments being named. It was pretty big news in the US legal community as it also had tied to law schools, which are pretty much as childish as most internet forums.

http://techliberation.com/2009/02/16...re-of-sec-230/

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sure, and everything everyone ever says should be a matter of public record to be misconstrued and taken out of context whenever someone felt it suited them.

I would suggest that, in fact, if everything was a matter of record and their for public consumption, it would be nearly impossible to take things out of context...as the evidence would be locked in forever...at least as far as internet postings go.

I see where this could be a huge slippery slope and I agree that if the courts are to start demanding IP's etc, then they best do a whole lot of preliminary investigation before making such an order. However, I also believe that no one should be allowed to commit slander nor libel and then be able to hide behind the anonymity of some made up screen name.

Self responsibility is already at an alltime low and such a blanket of protection would only allow for things to get worse. The example of posting a picture and then claiming that person is a child molester is a very good example as to where things could go if there is no accountability for those making the accusation.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by transplant99

yup.

Dont agree with a lot of their positions, but they are certainly entitled to them...and its apparent not every person there is the exact same in their thinking/views.

Doesnt make them a "cesspool of human filth" however.

I guess it depends what you consider to be human filth. I think that neo-Nazis qualify of which many have been outed as freely posting on Free Dominion without a scant of derision or questioning.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

That's rich coming from JustAnotherAnonymousGuy. Why do you not post under your real name?

I fully expected that response. You win for being first. I have nothing to hide. But unfortunately the other anonymous people of the world enjoy screwing with people's lives so I won't post under my real name.

If you posted under your real name would you post any differently? Be honest. Would you? I know I wouldn't.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

I guess it depends what you consider to be human filth. I think that neo-Nazis qualify of which many have been outed as freely posting on Free Dominion without a scant of derision or questioning.

Not every person posting there is or even shares neo-nazi views.

Broad brush time.