Honda CRV or Toyota Rav4?

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

How many station wagons are offered in North America these days?

Offhand, Dodge Magnum, VW Passat (I think?), and Subaru Outback come to mind. But really any of the vehicles being discussed in this thread have car drivetrains, not truck drivetrains, so I think of them as glorified wagons anyway. Back in the day *hitches thumbs through suspenders* a SUV was a truck with a different body.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I must be the only one, but I have no idea why people like Cuv's so much these days....they don't have any off-road capability compared to a "real" Suv, don't have as much cargo/interior room as a station wagon, and have poor handling compared to a regular car. What' the advantage again? Sitting up high?

The people who suggest the Subaru's are on the right track imo. Now there's a car that offers a ton in every department...volume, traction, safety, reliability, handling.

I have a "real" off road vehicle right now - a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, fully loaded. I don't need the off-road capability as I don't do much off-roading anyway. I do a lot of highway driving (Phoenix and back 3 times a year). So, I want something that can carry more than a car, has decent gas mileage, is 4WD when I need it. A real SUV isn't going to get the kind of mileage that a small SUV will get. Sure, I'm sacrificing some cargo space, but they still have a lot of cargo space (more than ample for my needs). Anyway, the smaller SUVs seem to fit the bill for me.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

How many station wagons are offered in North America these days?

Most automakers have at least one.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Most automakers have at least one.

Really? Toyota? Honda? Nissan? Mazda? Hyundai? Kia? GM? None of them have one.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Really? Toyota? Honda? Nissan? Mazda? Hyundai? Kia? GM? None of them have one.

Well the Matrix and Accord Crosstour are basically wagons.
Mazda 3 - it's a wagon, not a "hatchback"
Kia - do they still make the Rio5?
GM - well that new Caddy is in a wagon.
Volvo and Saab (yep, they are back) both have wagons

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Well the Matrix and Accord Crosstour are basically wagons.
Mazda 3 - it's a wagon, not a "hatchback"
Kia - do they still make the Rio5?
GM - well that new Caddy is in a wagon.
Volvo and Saab (yep, they are back) both have wagons

The Crosstour is a crossover. The Matrix, 3, and Rio5 are all hatchbacks and they defintely don't have more room than a CUV.

I forgot about Cadillac having a wagon.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

The Crosstour is a crossover. The Matrix, 3, and Rio5 are all hatchbacks and they defintely don't have more room than a CUV.

I forgot about Cadillac having a wagon.

See, I think that's just marketing. Any review I've read/seen about the crosstour is that it's an accord wagon, semantics I guess. Those manufacturers don't want their products called a wagon. Even Saab calls theirs a SportCombi or Estate in the case of the new 9-5.

to me, these are hatches



Also, the original Impreza was a hatch, but the new one is definitely a wagon.

On a separate note, the new VW Golf wagon TDi is pretty nice.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Really? Toyota? Honda? Nissan? Mazda? Hyundai? Kia? GM? None of them have one.

Like others have said, forget what the car makers call their vehicles.

Toyota - Matrix (small wagon), Venza (Tall wagon)
Honda - Accord Crosstour, Element
Nissan - Rogue, Murano - Wagon like at the very least
Mazda - 3 Sport
Kia - Rondo
Hyundai - Elantra Touring
GM - Cadillac SRX, Caddy CTS wagon

etc.
Due to the blurry line betweem wagons and crossovers, you could probably add more to that list.

Other manufacturers:
Subaru - lots of wagons
VW - Golf Wagon

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

]

Also, the original Impreza was a hatch, but the new one is definitely a wagon.

On a separate note, the new VW Golf wagon TDi is pretty nice.

The original impreza was actually a sedan.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

I do a lot of highway driving (Phoenix and back 3 times a year). So, I want something that can carry more than a car, has decent gas mileage, is 4WD when I need it. A real SUV isn't going to get the kind of mileage that a small SUV will get.

A station wag does all those things better than the small SUV you covet. Probably won't change your mind, but look into that Subaru.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Those manufacturers don't want their products called a wagon. Even Saab calls theirs a SportCombi or Estate in the case of the new 9-5.

Well, that's just euro speak, combi is more or less wagon in many parts of europe. They are very cars though....and the resale value plumments quite drastically after 2/3 years so they are somewhat affordable.

The Jetta TDI wagon is definitely something to consider. From what I hear from friends who own one, the Tiguan is basically useless in the snow.

Volvo and Audi have some great wagons too btw....definitely a little pricier than a CRV/RAV4 though.

[CalgaryFan1988]

It's really a toss up between the two. I think Honda's have slightly better resale value than a toyota, especially lately. Besides that the only real difference between the two is the rav 4 comes with a full size spare and the honda comes with a dummy tire (i believe). Could factor in if you really do a lot of driving....

I should also add if you're buying new stick to Honda, Toyota. If you're buying used you might want to look into some of the others mentioned. Resale value is very low on Ford, GM, and especially Hyundai.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Mazda CX-7?

[lucky1]

Originally Posted by Shazam

4WD and AWD are interchangeable terms. What matters is the the manufacturer's system.

If you really want good 4WD, then Subaru is your only real choice. But then, what do you need the AWD for?

I beg to differ my friend, 4wd is NOT AWD....AWD is a setup that will transfer varying amounts of torque to the front differential according to detected loss of traction at the rear...it is always biased to the rear differential. 4WD has a simple transfer case that shows no bias either front or back and simply splits the torque evenly via the transfer case...and only when 'locked in'....there are some 4wd systems that come close to an AWD version by putting a viscous coupler in the transfer case, but it is still not considered AWD. There are also some AWD systems that will let you 'lock' the transfer case, putting an even split between the front and the rear. 4wd systems also have a 2 speed transfer case while AWD systems generally do not...

to the OP...the RAV4 is an AWD vehicle, not 4WD...the bias on the Rav4 is to the front wheels, with a split to the rear during slip conditions.Toyota calls it 4WD but its not.I dont think there are any CUV's with a true 4wd set up..

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Table 5

A station wag does all those things better than the small SUV you covet. Probably won't change your mind, but look into that Subaru.

I'm going to test drive a Subaru Forester. I will also have a look at the Outback while I'm there. Who knows, it won't be the first time that I set out to get a certain thing and ended up changing my mind during the selection process. I guess that's the whole point of this exercise - to check out what is available, and select what you like best.

[tyler durden]

Originally Posted by lucky1

I beg to differ my friend, 4wd is NOT AWD....AWD is a setup that will transfer varying amounts of torque to the front differential according to detected loss of traction at the rear...it is always biased to the rear differential. 4WD has a simple transfer case that shows no bias either front or back and simply splits the torque evenly via the transfer case...and only when 'locked in'....there are some 4wd systems that come close to an AWD version by putting a viscous coupler in the transfer case, but it is still not considered AWD. There are also some AWD systems that will let you 'lock' the transfer case, putting an even split between the front and the rear. 4wd systems also have a 2 speed transfer case while AWD systems generally do not...

to the OP...the RAV4 is an AWD vehicle, not 4WD...the bias on the Rav4 is to the front wheels, with a split to the rear during slip conditions.Toyota calls it 4WD but its not.I dont think there are any CUV's with a true 4wd set up..

Exactly correct. The Honda uses a very simple hydraulic system to engage the rear wheels when the fronts slip.

To the OP
My wife had an 04 CRV and my mother in law had the same thing but an automatic. Strangely enough the auto was rated for better mileage than the standard. My mother in law now has a 2007 which is the latest incarnation. Some observations i have from both vehicles. Honda does not make a comfortable seat. If you are going on long trips or are going to be spending a lot of time in it consider that. Pay attention to how comfortable you find it when test driving as if you don't find it all the great it doesn't get any better over time, trust me. I hated taking trips over an hour long in that vehicle. My other major complaint with it and Honda's in general really(i've owned a few) is the road noise. Brutal.
Other than that they really are excellent vehicles. The power is fine as well. You certainly don't need any more in something like this. It is after all a practical vehicle.
My wife just traded her 07 Sante Fe. That was the first year of the redesign, I honestly have nothing but praise for that vehicle and for what Hyundai has accomplished in the last 4 or 5 years. They have truly improved to the point where they are now at the Japanese level in quality. Take a look at quality ratings on Hyundai's. They are even ahead of the Japanese in a lot of cases. From my experience with my wife's it is justified. Smooth, extremely quiet, refined, top notch fit and finish. It impressed me every time I drove it actually. The last time i had it in for it's service I looked at the new Tuscon in the showroom. I would definitely check them out. Nice little units. Far better than the previous model, which is what Hyundai has done with every car in their line up now.
I really like the VW Tiguan as well. I haven't driven one but it is essentially a Rabbit/Golf with more ground clearance and awd. I drove a Rabbit a few years back when they resurrected the name as I was feeling nostalgic having had a couple when I was younger. What struck me was how well built it FELT. It is hard to describe but it just felt so solid.

[Sliver]

Also check out a one year old Ford Flex as they are well priced (because they depreciate fast from new). That would be a nice road car I bet. And have you considered a minivan? Siennas can come in awd...it does everything any other wagon does but with more comfort and more power than a lot of those other vehicles, too.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Also check out a one year old Ford Flex as they are well priced (because they depreciate fast from new). That would be a nice road car I bet.

Not exactly great on gas though. It's also like driving a school bus.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by lucky1

I beg to differ my friend, 4wd is NOT AWD....AWD is a setup that will transfer varying amounts of torque to the front differential according to detected loss of traction at the rear...it is always biased to the rear differential. 4WD has a simple transfer case that shows no bias either front or back and simply splits the torque evenly via the transfer case...and only when 'locked in'....there are some 4wd systems that come close to an AWD version by putting a viscous coupler in the transfer case, but it is still not considered AWD. There are also some AWD systems that will let you 'lock' the transfer case, putting an even split between the front and the rear. 4wd systems also have a 2 speed transfer case while AWD systems generally do not...

to the OP...the RAV4 is an AWD vehicle, not 4WD...the bias on the Rav4 is to the front wheels, with a split to the rear during slip conditions.Toyota calls it 4WD but its not.I dont think there are any CUV's with a true 4wd set up..

Originally Posted by tyler durden

Exactly correct. The Honda uses a very simple hydraulic system to engage the rear wheels when the fronts slip.

Both the RAV4 and the CRV have a "4WD" option by their manufacturers. So then, what both of you are saying is that what the manufacturer calls it is irrelevant, right? Which is what I said.

[red sky]

That Tuscon looks really nice. Anyone have one or test drive one?