Hawking says contact with Aliens could be risky

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

Would you advocate not studying the brain or consciousness in case we do find out that this was the case, and we're better off thinking we have free will and unjustly holding people responsible for their actions?

Do you allow reductionism to impact your studies so much? The brain is an immensely complicated organism and will probably never be understood in its entirety. Similar to human interactions and behaviour, there is very little possibility of a single all-encompassing theory.

We should stop trying to pretend that it's possible.

[photon]

Originally Posted by peter12

Do you allow reductionism to impact your studies so much? The brain is an immensely complicated organism and will probably never be understood in its entirety.

Never is a long time. Billions of years for every second that has passed reading this.

Understanding a system is not reductionism, it's understanding.

Coming to a conclusion doesn't eliminate the complexity, it just defines it.

Originally Posted by peter12

Similar to human interactions and behaviour, there is very little possibility of a single all-encompassing theory.

We should stop trying to pretend that it's possible.

Very little possibility based on what? Your say so? That's not very compelling.

Why pretend it is impossible?

And you avoided the question completely.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

Never is a long time. Billions of years for every second that has passed reading this.

Understanding a system is not reductionism, it's understanding.

Coming to a conclusion doesn't eliminate the complexity, it just defines it.



Very little possibility based on what? Your say so? That's not very compelling.

Why pretend it is impossible?

And you avoided the question completely.

To answer the question I have to go to my own field, political philosophy, and say that Western society's vision of Man has changed significantly over the years and that there has never been a definitive answer. The best we can hope for is conversations between great thinkers of the pasts and ourselves to try and piece something together.

I really can't say anything more. My perceptions of past and future are probably philosophically far different than anyone else on here.

[photon]

Originally Posted by peter12

To answer the question I have to go to my own field, political philosophy, and say that Western society's vision of Man has changed significantly over the years and that there has never been a definitive answer. The best we can hope for is conversations between great thinkers of the pasts and ourselves to try and piece something together.

A definitive answer to what? To the question if our actions are deterministic? Of course not, but that wasn't my question..

I asked if you would advocate deciding as a society to avoid or stop a line of scientific inquiry because the answer might fundamentally change our perception of ourselves (i.e. no free will)?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by photon

A definitive answer to what? To the question if our actions are deterministic? Of course not, but that wasn't my question..

I asked if you would advocate deciding as a society to avoid or stop a line of scientific inquiry because the answer might fundamentally change our perception of ourselves (i.e. no free will)?

Reminds me of a show on neuroscience and music in which Sting had his brain scanned while listening to various types of music and was asked to compose a song in his head while being scanned.

At the very end of the program Sting after learning a lot about the human brain and how it deals with creativity, music appreciation; he became a bit uncomfortable and said he worries that we'll know exactly how the brain works and it would take the wonder out of it.

I hear this a lot with all the neuroscience articles I read/follow, its obvious we are pealing back a lot of layers in the brain and it is a very uncomfortable thing in many ways to imagine we might take away some mysteries many would rather not know.

I'm one who is excited to find out what we can learn, but I certainly understand why some people are nervous about what we'll learn.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

As pointed out before this, we really don't need to worry about that for quite some time:

http://futuretimeline.net/beyond.htm#1000000000

This is a very neat website that looks at all the hypothetical future advances (if we don't blow ourselves up first!) http://futuretimeline.net/index.htm

oh damn you, that site is absolutely going to ruin my productivity at work

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Yeah that website blows my mind when it goes into the ridiculously far into the future milestones.

Can you even imagine the death of the universe? Just think about it, crazy stuff.

http://futuretimeline.net/beyond.htm#dark

It's kind of depressing in a way.

That's one of the most fascinating and at the same time depressing things I've read in a while. I'm really hoping for immortality pill so we can experience it all

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

As pointed out before this, we really don't need to worry about that for quite some time:

http://futuretimeline.net/beyond.htm#1000000000

This is a very neat website that looks at all the hypothetical future advances (if we don't blow ourselves up first!) http://futuretimeline.net/index.htm

Fun but... well one thing they have in there is matter/antimatter power plants.

A century after the global deployment of fusion, new forms of power production are becoming necessary in order to cope with the exponential rise in energy demands on Earth and elsewhere. A new generation of power plants is becoming available, capable of harnessing the energy released in matter/antimatter collisions. The reactions involved are 1,000 times more powerful than the fission produced in nuclear power plants and over 300 times more powerful than nuclear fusion energy.

Anyone who can write that with a straight face really shouldn't be trusted to create a website about future possibilities...

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by photon

Fun but... well one thing they have in there is matter/antimatter power plants.



Anyone who can write that with a straight face really shouldn't be trusted to create a website about future possibilities... [/SIZE][/FONT]

Can we really dismiss anything? I dunno, that website is a hobby for a guy that posts over at SSP. I find it interesting and he is always updating it and trying to make it as accurate as possible (based on information out there), which can be difficult when you are looking into the unknown future.

So on one hand that is on there, but on the other they don't have us encountering a civilised alien species until like 1,000,000 AD.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Russic

I can't help but think if you've got the technology to get to earth, you've got the technology to shield yourself from nuclear weapons. Has Independence Day taught you nothing?

Honestly the aliens would only need to park a meat shield ship at the top of our atmosphere. If we fired a nuke at it the explosion would leave any electronics we had completely and utterly useless for quite a large distance. Conquering earth would be really easy.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Can we really dismiss anything? I dunno, that website is a hobby for a guy that posts over at SSP. I find it interesting and he is always updating it and trying to make it as accurate as possible (based on information out there), which can be difficult when you are looking into the unknown future.

It's not a matter of dismissing something, the question is where do you get the antimatter from?

Unless there's a "limitless supply of antimatter" discovery I missed

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Can we really dismiss anything? I dunno, that website is a hobby for a guy that posts over at SSP. I find it interesting and he is always updating it and trying to make it as accurate as possible (based on information out there), which can be difficult when you are looking into the unknown future.

So on one hand that is on there, but on the other they don't have us encountering a civilised alien species until like 1,000,000 AD.

There won't even be an "us" in 1,000,000 years. Evolution and instinction doesn't just stop. There is also no reason to think as we evolve, it is going to be to evolve into more intelligent beings. There is no end plan for evolution and we could just as easily evolve into more primitive beings by then.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There is no end plan for evolution and we could just as easily evolve into more primitive beings by then.

Ya!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There won't even be an "us" in 1,000,000 years. Evolution and instinction doesn't just stop. There is also no reason to think as we evolve, it is going to be to evolve into more intelligent beings. There is no end plan for evolution and we could just as easily evolve into more primitive beings by then.

Since we're already seeing the moronification of our society, I would expect that our future selves will be hideously overweight couch potatoes with an IQ of 60 and 10 fingers on each hand for texting.

In a thousand years humanity will speak in three letter words like OMG and LOL while having no concept of grammar, spelling or reading beyond the equally braindead musings of twitter.

Then we'll be conquered by a race slightly less moronic that knows how to swing a baseball bat and can walk two blocks without having a heart attack.

[JFK]

It's probably been mentioned by now, but if aliens can travel at a speed great enough to reach Earth, then good luck hitting them with a nuke.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Since we're already seeing the moronification of our society, I would expect that our future selves will be hideously overweight couch potatoes with an IQ of 60 and 10 fingers on each hand for texting.

In a thousand years humanity will speak in three letter words like OMG and LOL while having no concept of grammar, spelling or reading beyond the equally braindead musings of twitter.

Then we'll be conquered by a race slightly less moronic that knows how to swing a baseball bat and can walk two blocks without having a heart attack.

I think its more likely major climate shift thats definitely coming will kill off possibly billions and force a hardy few to survive and thrive in the following warming period after an ice age.

Hey it worked for our ancient ancestors, why can't it for us modern man

[sclitheroe]

Personally I think the odds of anyone finding anyone else in an infinite sized universe is probably the limiting factor in any discussion about extra terrestrial life.

How are you supposed to find anyone if you have an infinite number of places to look? The alternative is to wait for the information to come to you, which is too slow - by the time the data arrives, the people that sent it are long gone.

[Huntingwhale]

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Since we're already seeing the moronification of our society, I would expect that our future selves will be hideously overweight couch potatoes with an IQ of 60 and 10 fingers on each hand for texting.

In a thousand years humanity will speak in three letter words like OMG and LOL while having no concept of grammar, spelling or reading beyond the equally braindead musings of twitter.

That's basically the setup of Idiocracy. The movie wasn't very good at all, but the idea behind it was somewhat interesting. Unlike throughout most of history, the weak can survive in modern society. And not only do they survive, but they pop out children much faster than the more intelligent/more career-focused people, so the species will devolve.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by gargamel

That's basically the setup of Idiocracy. The movie wasn't very good at all, but the idea behind it was somewhat interesting. Unlike throughout most of history, the weak can survive in modern society. And not only do they survive, but they pop out children much faster than the more intelligent/more career-focused people, so the species will devolve.

That's the thing.

There seem to be a lot of people who think evolving means constantly becoming more intelligent, but that is not the case. That will only occur if it gives us a survival or reprodctive benefit and considering how the more technologically advanced societies right now tend to have negative growth rates, I am not so sure that is the case.