How is this not price gouging - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

snappyk · 09-23-2005, 07:06 AM

A Hamilton gas station is now charging $1.49/l but a lot of other guys are still charging under .99/l. The news is reporting that some stations are now over $2.50/L, absolute crap. Will we see a spike like that here, a .50/l spike at the pumps?

www.hamiltongasprices.com

Frank the Tank · 09-23-2005, 07:16 AM

Its been a $1.05 here in London all week. Still was this morning on my way into the office. We'll see if we get the typical weekend gouge, which is great, because I have to go to Windsor this weekend.

Resolute 14 · 09-23-2005, 07:41 AM

Paul Martin was talking tough about going after price gougers. Let's see if he actually does something about it, or if he is merely going to dither like usual.

Cowperson · 09-23-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by snappyk@Sep 23 2005, 06:06 AM
A Hamilton gas station is now charging $1.49/l but a lot of other guys are still charging under .99/l. The news is reporting that some stations are now over $2.50/L, absolute crap. Will we see a spike like that here, a .50/l spike at the pumps?

www.hamiltongasprices.com

I think if someone is charging $1.49 while someone else is charging $.99 then there isn't any gouging involved since you still have a choice and one dealer is simply going to see his sales dry up.

If they're all charging $1.49 without a fundamental reason to do so then you're getting into suspicious territory.

Cowperson

Tron_fdc · 09-23-2005, 09:13 AM

I was told from someone "high up" that prices might hit $2/litre if Rita starts taking out refineries, as somewhere around 25% of capacity is in the Houston area.

Pretty glad I don't pay for gas right now.......

Bring_Back_Shantz · 09-23-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tron_fdc@Sep 23 2005, 09:13 AM
I was told from someone "high up" that prices might hit $2/litre if Rita starts taking out refineries, as somewhere around 25% of capacity is in the Houston area.

Pretty glad I don't pay for gas right now.......

Come on tron, you don't have to know anyone "high up" to hear the $2/l rumors.

Tron_fdc · 09-23-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz@Sep 23 2005, 09:34 AM
Come on tron, you don't have to know anyone "high up" to hear the $2/l rumors.

Yeah, but it makes me sound more credible than "I heard it from Bring Back Shantz"

Neeper · 09-23-2005, 10:50 AM

I filled up all my rides this morning just in case.

Shawnski · 09-23-2005, 10:54 AM

They were showing some prices on the news last night and one place (I think it was Sudbury) was listed at 179.9. Nuts... just nuts...

snappyk · 09-23-2005, 01:57 PM

Funny thing is that the storm is now a catagory 3, still it's bad but not as bad as it could have been. I still think it's a bunch of B.S that the oil companies do this.

Thunderball · 09-23-2005, 02:43 PM

Natural Gas prices are regulated... perhaps its time for at least some sort of government organization mandated to prevent gouging and requiring gas stations and the companies that own them to substantiate their raising the rates, and the power to say no if the explanation is not acceptable. Not full regulation, cause I am opposed to it, just more of a watchdog.

RougeUnderoos · 09-23-2005, 03:14 PM

I worked at a gas station on Macleod Trail during the Gulf War and the way gas prices were regulated on that street was with the Binocular Method.

Get out the binoculars and look down one way to the Shell station and see how much they were charging, then look to the other way to the Mohawk station and see what they were charging. If they were up, you went up. If they went down, you went down. The managers of those stations were doing the same thing. It was quite a dance. Sometimes we would blink first and crank up the price by 10cents and they'd quickly follow suit. Or maybe they wouldn't and we'd drop them again in a couple hours.

There was very little input from head office. Their advice was to do what we were doing.

It was a joke. World events weren't controlling the price of gas, the manager of Mohawk was.

Lurch · 09-23-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

It was a joke. World events weren't controlling the price of gas, the manager of Mohawk was.

A joke? Sounds like a market to me!!

Anyway, it cracks me up in the middle of right wing Alberta that people advocate government controls on gas prices. If this isn't the most ill-conceived, short-sighted and typically interventionist Liberal approach, I'm not sure what would be. In fact, when you get right down to it, the NEP was really just a regulated energy price policy for Canada that allowed the east to buy energy from the west at below market price, i.e. a regulated price.

Quote:

Natural Gas prices are regulated... perhaps its time for at least some sort of government organization mandated to prevent gouging and requiring gas stations and the companies that own them to substantiate their raising the rates, and the power to say no if the explanation is not acceptable. Not full regulation, cause I am opposed to it, just more of a watchdog.

This is not really true. Natural gas prices are regulated in Alberta, but only to the extent that retail customers pay the flow-through of the market price plus a regulated profit margin. There is no regulation on the wholesale level - IIRC, there are a few gas traders around here who would be out of a job if natural gas was regulated.

RougeUnderoos · 09-23-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lurch@Sep 23 2005, 04:37 PM
A joke? Sounds like a market to me!!

That's true, but when there is a talking head from Shell or Petro-Can (which there was) on TV saying "this is not price gouging, this is reality, events in the Middle East have severely disrupted oil and gas production and our prices are a reflection of that" when the real policy is "charge whatever you can, depending on the street you are on and what the competition is charging", that's when it becomes a joke.

It was nothing more than an excuse to ramp up the prices and the Middle East had nothing to do with it. That's their prerogative though, but it was still a joke.

But I agree with you about the irony of right-wing Albertans calling for controls and all that, while just this week we had a very one-sided discussion about how terrible exactly that would be.

Maybe, instead of the government doing it for us, we could put some controls on our own consumption? Shudder to think.

Clarkey · 09-23-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderball@Sep 23 2005, 08:43 PM
Natural Gas prices are regulated... perhaps its time for at least some sort of government organization mandated to prevent gouging and requiring gas stations and the companies that own them to substantiate their raising the rates, and the power to say no if the explanation is not acceptable. Not full regulation, cause I am opposed to it, just more of a watchdog.

Trotta!!! Regulation in exchange for a functioning market?

Thunderball · 09-23-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarkey@Sep 23 2005, 05:33 PM
Trotta!!! Regulation in exchange for a functioning market?

Well, I didn't mean regulation... I simply meant a group that makes sure prices are what they are cause of the market... not to regulate. Just a watchdog group to make sure its reasonably honest... kind of in the same vein as antitrust laws...

I'm as pro-business as they come, and if it costs $1.50 a litre to produce and sell the fuel with a good profit margin for the seller, so be it. But if it only costs a fraction of that, and someone is marking it up to $2... thats a bit of a cause for concern. There's a reason we have antitrust and usury laws...

I'd rather not have any government interference, frankly.

CaramonLS · 09-23-2005, 05:53 PM

Well Its a discussion that has been going on for a long period of time. Should companies have complete autonomy over gas prices, since it is one of the resources which is pretty damned essential to our society. Blanket statements which say "use less, and take the Bus more often", might sound like a good idea but really are not that practical especially for a city like Calgary.

Also to Lurch, to think that True market forces actually exsist on Gas? Its a little obsurd.

There is not unlimited competion, between gas stations - instead several very large companies are the ones that make the rules. Too many barriers to entry into the market exsist, and they have high price tags so not just anyone can jump on board.

No, right now Gas is run like a virtual cartel. Few people actually set the prices, and since the demand for Gas is almost unchanged. Explain more later.

Thunderball · 09-23-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Sep 23 2005, 05:53 PM
Well Its a discussion that has been going on for a long period of time. Should companies have complete autonomy over gas prices, since it is one of the resources which is pretty damned essential to our society. Blanket statements which say "use less, and take the Bus more often", might sound like a good idea but really are not that practical especially for a city like Calgary.

Also to Lurch, to think that True market forces actually exsist on Gas? Its a little obsurd.

There is not unlimited competion, between gas stations - instead several very large companies are the ones that make the rules. Too many barriers to entry into the market exsist, and they have high price tags so not just anyone can jump on board.

No, right now Gas is run like a virtual cartel. Few people actually set the prices, and since the demand for Gas is almost unchanged. Explain more later.

This is very similar to what I am trying to get across... well said.

Devils'Advocate · 09-23-2005, 06:02 PM

Uhm. Isn't high gas prices the reason you're getting tax money back? Easy come, easy go for you.... but just easy go for us in Ontario?

Clarkey · 09-23-2005, 06:04 PM

The government has investigated whether or not collusion exists among gas retailers many many times and have come up with the conclusion that it is not happening every time. How many studies do they have to do?