Karzai Thinking to Join Taliban

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

As far as calling their culture barbaric, what else would you call a culture that marginalizes any person that does not toe the political/religious line.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3457015

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

What do you call a country that passes a law that condones rape? If its not barbaric, backwards or medieval I don't know what is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_321985.html

[peter12]

Phaneuf3 just compared American culture to Afghanistan under the Taliban. Cultural relativism and the fine young minds of today.

As for Karzai, all I will say is that I feel sorry for the Afghan people who are governed by rubbish like this with almost no recourse.

[IliketoPuck]

I see what you are getting at, but did either of those situations result in death, imprisonment or mutilation? Not really on the same level.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by peter12

ILiketoPuck just compared American culture to Afghanistan under the Taliban. Cultural relativism and the fine young minds of today.

As for Karzai, all I will say is that I feel sorry for the Afghan people who are governed by rubbish like this with almost no recourse.

I didn't compare anything. I just said I for one don't understand it as a result of how I was raised in a Western culture. To each their own.



edit: sorry peter I didn't see that you had changed who you were quoting....I was getting a little confused.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I see what you are getting at, but did either of those situations result in death, imprisonment or mutilation? Not really on the same level.

In that second one, they imprisoned her in a shipping container without food and water and was the subjected of sexual assault and rape. People in government tried to protect the accused from facing any sort of consequences from this.



but... yes, I do see a difference... I was just trying to stir the pot for entertainment value and see if I could get any bites.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I didn't compare anything. I just said I for one don't understand it as a result of how I was raised in a Western culture. To each their own.



edit: sorry peter I didn't see that you had changed who you were quoting....I was getting a little confused.

I was obviously a little confused!

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

In that second one, they imprisoned her in a shipping container without food and water and was the subjected of sexual assault and rape. People in government tried to protect the accused from facing any sort of consequences from this.



but... yes, I do see a difference... I was just trying to stir the pot for entertainment value and see if I could get any bites.

Fair enough, but tried to protect from consequences is world's different from not facing any.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by peter12

I was obviously a little confused!

I had a good little rant too. The Duhatchek / Iginla thread got my collar a little hot.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Fair enough, but tried to protect from consequences is world's different from not facing any.

Well, if that happened to me... keeping that in a private arbitration session conducted by my employer where there's no real consequences and everyone involved is bound by NDAs is not that far off from facing no consequences.

[IliketoPuck]

Absolutely, but just by virtue of it becoming public knowledge, regardless of the timing of it ensures that it is not simply swept under the rug, not to say they didn't try.

[narbeZ]

Wait..Wasn't this on 24 last night?

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by Azure

A culture that doesn't condemn the killing women and children simply because they oppose certain beliefs or hold a different political opinion is indeed backwards.

If they want to be more conservative and fundamental with their laws, fine....but that isn't exactly what the problem is.

The Taliban are a bunch of scumbags. Even Saddam's people pale in comparison to what the Taliban have done in the past.

Plus, the US actually got rid of the scumbags in Saddam's regime. It was the working with who was left that turned things around. Who exactly do you work with in Afghanistan?

See, the problem here is the media. People in the west are totally out to lunch when it comes to what's actually going on oversea.
The amount of reporting that is false and exaggerated is beyond belief. You're basing your opinion about an entire culture, not just on actions of certain individuals within that culture, but on the biased and pathetic media that exists here. If you want to talk about culture, that's fine i can tell you all about Afghan culture. But don't mix the culture of an entire nation, with the actions of corrupt individuals who just happened to be financed, and backed by the US/West (ie. Karzai; see origins of the Taliban)

'The Taliban are scumbags and worse than Saddam'...the Taliban is not a political group. Nor does it have a rigid hierarchy. Yes it was in control of much of the country for a time, but you have to understand that the Taliban can't be characterized with western ideas. You're comparing individuals who are fighting off foreign invaders, and share a common religion to a dictator of a sovereign state who was allowed to gain power directly by the US.
The US placed a scumbag in control of Iraq, and when he stopped obeying the West, invaded Iraq, killed countless people, many of them innocent civilians and have opened a can of worms.

If you honestly think things have 'turned around', or ever have in Iraq then you need to get outside the bubble of western media. Either go visit Iraq and see for yourself, or try to get hold of independent reporting. Just my advice if you actually want to know what's truly going on.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Reasons unknown?? Are you actually serious?

What is the reason? I'd like to hear your opinion.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I was under the impression that Afghanistan was invaded as a response to the Sept. 11 attacks, and their support of the terrorist organizations that had a part in those attacks.

Canada, as a member of NATO, and an ally of the USA, committed armed forces to the effort.

I'm pretty sure that was the reason NATO originally invaded Afghanistan. Why they are still there is a result of the conflict created between the Taliban and the NATO supported government.

As far as calling their culture barbaric, what else would you call a culture that marginalizes any person that does not toe the political/religious line. What do you call a country that passes a law that condones rape? If its not barbaric, backwards or medieval I don't know what is.

Western countries don't understand these cultures because Western countries generally do not condone marginalization and opression the way Afghanistan and its government obviously do.

So if i understand correctly, you're saying that Afghanistan had something to do with 9/11. Ok fair enough. Even though that is a pretty general statement. Who in Afghanistan? Who being the key word here. Osama bin Laden? Well, where is he? You mention 'terrorist organization' and i assume you mean Al-Qada.

This whole situation has been so dumbed down it's ridiculous. So if bin Laden and Al-Qada is responsible for 9/11, why isn't NATO actually looking for bin Laden, or fighting against Al-Qada? Instead, it seems they're not even interested in bin Laden and are fighting the Taliban. The only time we hear about bin Laden is when he feels frisky and makes an appearance on a video tape talking about attacking the west.

Anyway, i'm getting a little sidetracked. As far as the barbaric culture reference goes...scroll up a bit and read my other reply. It's funny you say the West is different than the governments of places like Afghanistan like they are two different things. The government of Afghanistan was picked by, is loyal to, and feeds off the approval of the US. Guess who lets them get away with barbarism? It's probably more accurate if you reference the government of the country as barbaric and not the culture.

PS: Speaking of marginalizing those who don't toe the political line, just wait and see what happens to Karzai if he continues his anti-west spiel.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

What is the reason? I'd like to hear your opinion.

I'm sure I could go on and on about the 9/11 attacks and you'd rebuttal with some garbage about it being an inside job ect. I'll save myself the time and frustration.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Haha........the funny thing about Osama Bin Laden is.......he is actually not wanted for the 9/11 attacks, because there is no hard evidence connecting him to 9/11.
He is wanted for many other crimes though...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

Right from the FBI's most wanted terrorist website....

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'm sure I could go on and on about the 9/11 attacks and you'd rebuttal with some garbage about it being an inside job ect. I'll save myself the time and frustration.

Go on about 9/11? How exactly. 9/11 happened and you can say who did or didn't do it. How is that going on about anything?

If you really have no opinion about 9/11 or Afghanistan/Karzai, or anything related to the two, then just say so. In the time it took you to write that you could have actually contributed. I was actually curious about your opinion.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Haha........the funny thing about Osama Bin Laden is.......he is actually not wanted for the 9/11 attacks, because there is no hard evidence connecting him to 9/11.
He is wanted for many other crimes though...

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

Right from the FBI's most wanted terrorist website....

This is kind of what i'm getting at. People honestly cannot give a proper reason for why NATO is in Afghanistan, and why Iraq was invaded. Even if Osama is responsible for 9/11, the US is doing a pretty slack job in trying to find him. Either that or they're easily distracted. Yet when someone posts a thread like this you get countless people who come and chime in, and when you ask them a simple question they say they'd rather not waste their time answering.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

This is kind of what i'm getting at. People honestly cannot give a proper reason for why NATO is in Afghanistan, and why Iraq was invaded. Even if Osama is responsible for 9/11, the US is doing a pretty slack job in trying to find him. Either that or they're easily distracted. Yet when someone posts a thread like this you get countless people who come and chime in, and when you ask them a simple question they say they'd rather not waste their time answering.

Iraq was invaded because they "harbor terrorists" and have "weapons of mass destruction".........which was all a media/government fabricated lie to sell the war to Americans..

[burn_this_city]

We're there because after 911 the Taliban refused to hand over the people responsible for the attack. They sheltered Al-Qaeda and provided a location for them to organize and launch attacks on the west. Once on the ground the US failed to capture Bin Laden in Tora Bora, and he was allowed to escape into the frontier provinces of Pakistan. The Americans then trusted that the Pakistanis ran by Mushareff would capture the Al-Qaeda leadership and turn them over. Which never happened, due to issues with controlling the frontier provinces and their own spy agencies. Fast forward 10ish years and NATO is trying to stabilize the country they originally drove Al-Qaeda from. If they fail to put a strong central government in place they risk letting the country fall back into Taliban control, which would allow Bin Laden and friends a safe place to operate from. Also there is a desire to limit the amount of heroine filtering into the west by controlling the poppy cultivation. Lets not forget the Taliban destroyed a few thousands years worth of priceless artifacts with RPGs because they arent Islamic enough for them to tolerate. The brand of Islam pushed by these guys is the furthest from moderate and runs counter to what was preached in the Quran.

So you asked why we are there??