Even Feminists hate "Nice Guys"

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah and just look at this floor . . . it really needs a good mopping.

And that laundry's not gonna clean itself.

Pick the kids up from soccer practice . . . sorry babe that old sports injury is acting up, why don't you pick up the kids, oh and here's a five spot, get yourself a slurpy for being such a champ.

[jayswin]

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Please explain. I think a drive by generalization like that deserves a little more comment before I agree or disagree with you. Just for the record I am talking about men in Calgary as the population relevent to your comment not just men on CP.

It might be biased sampling, but from my association with feminists (not really activists, just feminists) here and in other cities in Canada, Calgary seems to have a lot more of a 'traditional' viewpoint on women. I would not go as far as calling it misogynist, as I don't think it's particularly hateful, but the patriarchy was never really hateful; men just thought they knew better than women did. It sort of comes with the city's generally conservative outlook.

There was a survey done over the course of a few years in both the US and Canada asking something like "do you believe in the 'man of the house' and should women perform more traditional roles?" It's not the exact question, and I'm not going to look through a 1000 page Political Science textbook to find the exact question, but the results were interesting. In the States the number saying yes to that question rose from 40 to 49%, and in Canada dropped from 21 to 14%. I doubt the 14% number would have been representative in Calgary, from my day-to-day experience I feel it might be more around the 30% mark.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

I doubt the 14% number would have been representative in Calgary, from my day-to-day experience I feel it might be more around the 30% mark.

Now that is science.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Now that is science.

Same sort of science as Tower, and about as credible.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Now that is science.

dude, did I say it was science? From what I can tell he asked about my opinion, not whether I had conducted a peer-reviewed study of attitudes towards women in Calgary.

[PyramidsofMars]

nm

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

It might be biased sampling, but from my association with feminists (not really activists, just feminists) here and in other cities in Canada, Calgary seems to have a lot more of a 'traditional' viewpoint on women. I would not go as far as calling it misogynist, as I don't think it's particularly hateful, but the patriarchy was never really hateful; men just thought they knew better than women did. It sort of comes with the city's generally conservative outlook.

There was a survey done over the course of a few years in both the US and Canada asking something like "do you believe in the 'man of the house' and should women perform more traditional roles?" It's not the exact question, and I'm not going to look through a 1000 page Political Science textbook to find the exact question, but the results were interesting. In the States the number saying yes to that question rose from 40 to 49%, and in Canada dropped from 21 to 14%. I doubt the 14% number would have been representative in Calgary, from my day-to-day experience I feel it might be more around the 30% mark.

Okay, now that we have confirmed that any quantitative analysis based on where Calgary lies in the spectrum basically comes right out of thin air, Could this be another example of confirmational bias? Seems to me that if you're seeking out sexism, racism, et al you can find it pretty much anywhere you look whether that be Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver or Calgary.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Okay, now that we have confirmed that any quantitative analysis based on where Calgary lies in the spectrum basically comes right out of thin air, Could this be another example of confirmational bias? Seems to me that if you're seeking out sexism, racism, et al you can find it pretty much anywhere you look whether that be Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver or Calgary.

but I never said I had any statistical proof that Calgary is worse off than those cities in that regard. My experience is entirely anecdotal, I thought that was obvious starting with my first post, because I keeep emphasizing that I'm speaking from a position of associating with a lot of feminists. Based on what I hear from people who have lived in other cities, and from the time I have spent in those other cities, the attitudes toward women are different in the way I described. I wouldn't submit this to a sociology journal, it's just anecdotal discussion on an internet board.

You can find forms of discrimination anywhere, yes. It's a matter of degree, as far as I'm concerned, not whether or not it exists. The only area of this sort of attitude where I think Calgary is worse off than other major cities in Canada that I've spent time in is the attitude toward women.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

You can find forms of discrimination anywhere, yes. It's a matter of degree, as far as I'm concerned, not whether or not it exists. The only area of this sort of attitude where I think Calgary is worse off than other major cities in Canada that I've spent time in is the attitude toward women.

Pshaw, sir - you cannot even get a lap-dance in Calgary. You can in Toronto. I would suggest that means Calgary is much further along the feminist development index. And that's not just an opinion, but hard facts right on the ground...

[Locke]

Well, perhaps nice guys hate feminists.

[Regorium]

Articles like this reinforce my hatred/pity for feminists.

The whole "If they can't argue with me about rape culture on the first date, they're out of here". Are you serious? Does anyone here want to go out on a first date and argue about anything at all, much less rape culture?

And she wonders why she can't get laid.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Okay, now that we have confirmed that any quantitative analysis based on where Calgary lies in the spectrum basically comes right out of thin air, Could this be another example of confirmational bias? Seems to me that if you're seeking out sexism, racism, et al you can find it pretty much anywhere you look whether that be Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver or Calgary.

Bang on. It's pretty much how many people form their opinion of Calgary/Alberta in the media and across Canada.

...Calgary is an oil city. Therefore it must have the same politics, additudes, culture, religious makeup of Texas.

...Calgary has a famous rodeo for 10 days, so therefore everyone must be a redneck cowboy.

...Calgary hosted Ann Coulter and the city is 'conservative' so therefore it must have given her a "big welcome" and everyone agreed with her.

And so on.

I'm continually amazed how skewed people's perceptions are of the place. If you try and explain to someone from outside the city that in fact these stereotypes actually have very little basis, or you present a fact that doesn't neatly fit into their image of the place, you meet a lot of resistence.

People want to confirm preconceived notions of things. It gives one psychological satisfaction. This is even more true when that confirmation of a bias makes someone feel superior about their own situation (in this case, their home).

A Definition of the Confirmation Bias

Confirmation bias (or myside bias) is a tendency for people to prefer information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses, independently of whether they are true. People can reinforce their existing attitudes by selectively collecting new evidence, by interpreting evidence in a biased way or by selectively recalling information from memory.

The media definitely plays off of this psychological tendancy. People have a coloured view of Alberta/Calgary - it's sort of a favourite whipping boy of Canada, along with say places like Toronto. It's no wonder that the only 'stories' that filter their way out of the province are those stories that tend to confirm those stereotypes of those crazy Albertans.

A story about Ann Coulter coming to Calgary became a headline in the G & M of "Spurned in Ottawa, Calgary gets a big welcome from Calgary". This headline is before she has even landed in the city! Half the comments are to the effect of "It's Calgary, should we be surprised?" It's the paper's most popular story for like 2 days and has like 1500 reader comments.

George Bush makes his first post-presidential Canadian appearance in Calgary. The stories and perception is basically that Calgary's the only place in Canada that would even host this war criminal! A month later, a sell out crowd in Toronto.

Anti-racism group holds a rally, 2 skinheads show up, and suddenly Calgary is a hotbed of neo-nazis.

These are just recent examples.

To me Calgary is a decidedly moderate and essentially non-ideologically driven place. Further, it has an ambivailant live and let-live social attitude. It's not a place where you find much progressive or conservative social activism. For instance, you wouldn't (and didn't) find people marching in the streets for gay rights, but you also wouldn't see people marching in the streets against.

Canada is by and large a post-national state driven by immigrants. Calgary in a way epitomizes and is a microcosm of that element of Canadian society, because it's basically a city of outsiders - now one of the most ethnically diverse places in the country. There's nothing entrenched or deeply rooted based on culture, ethnicity, religion, language or whatever. It's therefore an inherently welcoming place - moreso than say, Quebec City.

If you further examine how we govern ourselves, our politics is not driven by religious beliefs, or even any sort of strong ideological bent. Federally, I think we elect "conservatives" because of a strong reaction against the regionalism of the liberal party (and past misgivings) and because from a regional sense, the conservatives are more the 'home team'. Provincially, I think one of the reasons why parties rule for so long is that they are essentially pragmatic governing parties. On actual issues, we are more stereotypically Canadian than we probably acknowledge. Alberta spends more and supports public healthcare more than anyone else. We also have by far the best public education system in the country and one of the best on the planet. In civic governemnt, we actually tend to vote in more centre-left mayors and councils.

/end rant

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Now that is science.

I heard that 76.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[IliketoPuck]

60% of the time, it works everytime.

[troutman]

Ian Faith: They're not gonna release the album... because they have decided that the cover is sexist.
Nigel Tufnel: Well, so what? What's wrong with bein' sexy? I mean there's no...
Ian Faith: Sex-IST!
David St. Hubbins: IST!

[Mad Mel]

Troutman turns it up to 11.

[frinkprof]

Good post Bunk. You have confirmed my beliefs on the matter.

[yads]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Pshaw, sir - you cannot even get a lap-dance in Calgary. You can in Toronto. I would suggest that means Calgary is much further along the feminist development index. And that's not just an opinion, but hard facts right on the ground...

Nah here we just toss coins at them, while they shake their ass on stage.

[Ford Prefect]

I can vouch that they don't like rude dudes either. I think they're most likely just a bunch of man haters.