How was your Earth Hour?

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

Interior CFL bulbs don't save near as much energy as people think. The waste energy in incandescent bulbs is emitted 100% as heat. Since in Calgary we heat our houses 8 months of the year, that heat load is made up by running the furnace more.

While this is true, the benefit of a light bulb heating your house isn't as great as you think it is either.

CFL's are far better in the long run all costs considered.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Dan02

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008.../18-awareness/

Mmm... that seems to suggest that awareness is about abdicating personal responsibility in response to the issue. Since you just posted a link and ran away, I'm not sure if you are suggesting that *I* personally am not living up to my responsibility in terms of environmental issues, or if the World Wildlife Fund is not? Which is it?

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Wow, look in the mirror buddy. Ever heard of the ends don't justify the means? Like I have said, it is my opinion something else could have been done a lot better that resulted in actual help for the environment.

Keep up the good work.

Yes, I have heard of the ends justifying the means. I was talking about you calling out the poster when he used a small scale example.

I look forward to hearing your ideas of what would be more effective to actually help the environment.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Even if the only result of Earth hour is the discussion that is going on in this single thread, it has made a difference. It might not matter this week, or this decade but by bringing these issues to light, even on a small scale such as this will make people think about <insert random energy conservation measure here> .

You think people making fun of how stupid the event was is a positive for the environment?

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by moon

You think people making fun of how stupid the event was is a positive for the environment?

Are you thinking about the environment right?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Yes, I have heard of the ends justifying the means. I was talking about you calling out the poster when he used a small scale example.

I look forward to hearing your ideas of what would be more effective to actually help the environment.

The first thing they can do is stop trying to portray that electricity is a bad thing.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by moon

You think people making fun of how stupid the event was is a positive for the environment?

I did not say positive nor did I say negative. I am not qualified to analyze the effect of media on its audience, but I am smart enough to know that people are influenced by what they read and over time it will have an impression on who they are.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The first thing they can do is stop trying to portray that electricity is a bad thing.

Electricity is a bad thing! Especially if you lack extension cords.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by Regorium

While this is true, the benefit of a light bulb heating your house isn't as great as you think it is either.

CFL's are far better in the long run all costs considered.

I've been down the road on this argument on this site before.

They are cheaper to operate (because electricity costs about four times per Joule compared to gas) but if you are saying that heat from a light bulb isn't the same as heat from a furnace or if you are implying that the heat doesn't make its way into the room it is lighting, you are incorrect. With the exception of a tiny fraction of IR energy leaking out the windows, everything on the warm side of the wall heats the room - convection and conduction makes sure of that. CFLs are the correct choice for outdoor and warm weather applications, from a raw energy balance point of view.

The exact same thing goes for tanked vs. tankless hot water heaters, same for efficient vs inefficient refridgerators. They may be cheaper to operate but they don't save much energy on balance, except in the summer.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The first thing they can do is stop trying to portray that electricity is a bad thing.

Who is "they" and where are "they" portraying electricity as a bad thing?

[C-ero]

I was at a restaurant...so the best I could do was turn off my cell phone. Sorry Mother Earth.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The first thing they can do is stop trying to portray that electricity is a bad thing.

lol. Sigh. Where to start.

Do you know where electricity comes from?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

We Canadians still use double the energy per capita than the average German and four times the worldwide average.

Sure. But we could be just as pro-environment and we would still have a higher per-capita carbon footprint than Germany.

1) Canada is cold -> more heating
2) Canada is big -> more transportation

I mean, if we wanted to reduce our carbon footprint we should probably start my getting rid of the fly-in, fly-out communities in the North. Germany doesn't have those.

As for the worldwide average, there are tons of places that care less about the environment than we do, but their economies are less developed.

Originally Posted by Bownesian

I have faith that consumption will go down in the long run (because of market forces) but I also believe that we will burn every last barrel of oil in the process. I'd rather that we did something about it now while energy is cheap like building a bunch of wind and nuclear power generation capacity but that will happen in the long run, it'll just cost a bunch more 20 years from now.

We will not burn every last barrel of oil. Oil become too valuable to burn before then because it has other uses. Plastics, pharmaceuticals, etc.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Who is "they" and where are "they" portraying electricity as a bad thing?

Palpatine: [on the phone with Darth Vader] Vader! How's my favorite Sith?... Whoa whoa whoa... whoa, whoa. Just - slow down. Huh? What do you mean they blew up the Death Star? Frack! Oh, frack! Frack! FRACK!... Who's "they"?... What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?
[sighs]

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

lol. Sigh. Where to start.

Do you know where electricity comes from?

Haha, WOW. The arrogance.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Who is "they" and where are "they" portraying electricity as a bad thing?

We all know who "they" are. The same people that are telling the entire world that it will end in decades unless we stop putting plant food in the air. The same people that said the glaciers were melting in the Alps. The same people that said the world is warming, but yet it is cooling. The same people that termed "global warming" and then changed it to "climate change" once they were proved wrong. The same people that will label you a "denier" if you don't believe everything they tell you about the environment.

However, no point in rehashing at least 100 other threads of the same nature that have been started on CP the last few years.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

They are cheaper to operate (because electricity costs about four times per Joule compared to gas)

That's my biggest point. By saying we could use the heat 8 out of 12 months, you are saying 67% of the time. (I say its less, but I'll give your that.)

Then factor in that electricity costs are 4 time as high as gas per joule, and that 67% goes down to 17%.

I'm not even going to debate the whole "heat rises- lights are on the ceiling so heat is rising into the attic" thing- based on your numbers with CFLs using 23% of the power, plus 17% in heat loss, CFLs use 40% of the energy that regular bulbs use.

Then factor in the A/C cost savings in the summer, the fact that 1/4 to 1/3 of my CFLs are outside (including the garage); it seems to me that CFLs are still the way to go.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

We all know who "they" are. The same people that are telling the entire world that it will end in decades unless we stop putting plant food in the air. The same people that said the glaciers were melting in the Alps. The same people that said the world is warming, but yet it is cooling. The same people that termed "global warming" and then changed it to "climate change" once they were proved wrong. The same people that will label you a "denier" if you don't believe everything they tell you about the environment.

If you are saying that those that support "Global Warming" are saying that "electricity is a bad thing" I'll wager $50 that you can't cite one publication by the National Academy of Science that says that "electricity is a bad thing".

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Haha, WOW. The arrogance.

Nope. No arrogance over here. I do feel it from you though.

I was just wondering if you know where electricity comes from. But I guess you don't since you avoided the question.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Nope. No arrogance over here. I do feel it from you though.

I was just wondering if you know where electricity comes from. But I guess you don't since you avoided the question.

So, what you are saying then, is that electricity is bad.