Ann Coulter @ the U of C - UPDATE moved to Red/White Club @ McMahon

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Toronto's not this ultra-liberal bastion you think it is. Attitudes on most issues are pretty similar to those held in Calgary. I think Calgarians probably have a lot more in common to Torontonians than they do to a rural Albertan resident for instance.

I've lived in Toronto, and most of my family lives there. I know of what I speak.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by transplant99

She was prevented from doing so because a bunch of folks didnt like what she has to say. That is frightening on any level in Canada or any other free-thinking society.

sorry, but WHY is this so frightening? If you set up a society in which people are free to express their viewpoints, people are also free to express, and strongly, their contrary viewpoints. If you disallow people who hate Coulter from saying what they think of her and what they think of her being allowed to speak, you are in effect restricting THEIR freedom of speech, are you not? If you disallow them from applying strong pressure to prevent someone else from speaking, you are denying them the right of speaking their mind.

The fact that I believe that neo-nazis have every right to take to the streets and publicly state their beliefs, so long as they don't incite a riot or call for murder, doesn't mean that I would shed a tear if said scum was prevented from ever speaking in public again through pressure from the opposing side. Boohoo. Guess what? That pressure against 'freedom of speech' IS freedom of speech. If you believe in freedom of speech, then you have to believe in the right of those who believe in restricting it to argue their case. If their rhetoric is better than yours, you lose. It's just how it works.

It's funny how right-wingers are always ready to dust off the old "they only support free speech when it's speech they like!" when they are EXACTLY the same way as the left-wing PC lobby is about that sort of thing.

The right-wing version: "I'm exercising my freedom of speech by saying that Muslims are a danger and we should deport them all, and not accept any more of them, their views are unacceptable in Western society!"

The left-wing version: "I'm exercising my freedom of speech by saying that right-wing speechies are a danger and we should actively persecute people for having unacceptable views in a multicultural society!"

Both sides are categorically correct in that they ARE exercising their freedom of speech with speech that wishes to silence opposing viewpoints. And when they develop arguments, someone's going to win, temporarily or permanently, and get their way.

[PyramidsofMars]

WindomURL... Twin Peaks reference?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Freedom of speech is a weak concept to begin with, no wonder you run into situations like pyramids of mars is talking about.

[WindomURL]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

WindomURL... Twin Peaks reference?

Damn right.
And you're only the second person on CP to get that.
Must be the upbringing in Cydonia

[goodyear]

ann coulter - i'd hit that

[photon]

Originally Posted by goodyear

ann coulter - i'd hit that

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by WindomURL

Damn right.
And you're only the second person on CP to get that.
Must be the upbringing in Cydonia

I thought it was common knowledge!

[transplant99]

sorry, but WHY is this so frightening? If you set up a society in which people are free to express their viewpoints, people are also free to express, and strongly, their contrary viewpoints

except she was not allowed to express her viewpoints...because of some perceived threat. Thats what is frightening. She didnt get the same "courtesy" that the protesters did. That is not OK. It can open a can of worms that has no end...people not being allowed to say what they believe....just think where that can lead to.

No one is saying opposing views cannot be expressed...but not allowing the original talking point (regardless how ridiculous it may be) is where oppression starts.

Both sides are categorically correct in that they ARE exercising their freedom of speech with speech that wishes to silence opposing viewpoints

Yeah...but...uhhh...only one side was heard in Ottawa...no?

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...but...uhhh...only one side was heard in Ottawa...no?

Coulter and Levant initially said that the police shut it down when it was actually in fact the organizers. They also said that 2000 violent protesters were trying to get inside, when police estimate that it was only 200 and they were not violent. Some witnesses say that the entire thing was poorly planned and disorganized (even here in Calgary), which certainly didn't help.

Despite being such a violent and unruly mob (sarcasm intended), no charges or arrests were made.

Of course Coluter is going to play the victim card. She has benefited immensely from the publicity, both here and back home in the US. That's what she does. Well played by her. The "warning" from the U of O prior to the event helped lay the foundation.

Either her "organizers" were incompetent and misinformed, or things played out exactly as planned.

[transplant99]

Coulter and Levant initially said that the police shut it down when it was actually in fact the organizers.

Was she allowed to speak in Ottawa or not? That's the point here.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Was she allowed to speak in Ottawa or not? That's the point here.

Yes - she was allowed and chose not to. That's my point here.

[transplant99]

Yes - she was allowed and chose not to.

Your own words.

Coulter and Levant initially said that the police shut it down when it was actually in fact the organizers.

So was it her or the organizers? Which story are we debating here?

[Jimmy Stang]

Police didn't shut it down. The University didn't shut it down. Security didn't shut it down.

The organizers are her representatives. They are responsible for the decision to cancel the event. Whether she was involved in that decision (she should have been), we will never know.

The spin following the decision blamed everyone and everything from the police to angry mobs to fire alarms. And, of course, the ever-present leftist conspiracies. That all seems to be hyperbole now.

[Azure]

I'm all for letting her express her viewpoints, but wow is she ever deluded.

I would NEVER think that people abuse or rape people because they're a liberal.

Thats just stupid.

[transplant99]

The organizers are her representatives.

Uh...no they aren't. The organizers were with the university. Her representation was Levant. The university decided it was a "public safety matter". They cancelled it. She was not allowed to speak..because of the perceived threat (real or not, its what happened). That is not what should happen in any "free" country. Ever.

[Jimmy Stang]

The organizers were not the university. You or I can rent a room at the university any time we want. Especially if we want what we say to sound academic.

Obviously people expressing certain views need to be aware of things that may go against any policies or laws in Canada, but generally speaking freedom of speech and thought is something the University value." say Grady Semmens.
Semmens says the University isn't bringing Coulter to campus. He says an outside group rented the room.
http://www.660news.com/news/local/ar...ersy-in-canada

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Uh...no they aren't. The organizers were with the university. Her representation was Levant. The university decided it was a "public safety matter". They cancelled it. She was not allowed to speak..because of the perceived threat (real or not, its what happened). That is not what should happen in any "free" country. Ever.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this right to freedom of speech concept only guarantees that the government won't censor free speech. A private organization (like a University) is completely free to shut down a speaking event on their properly based on whatever criteria they choose and it doesn't violate anyone's rights.

If I came into your home and started spouting crazy nonsense which you and your family found offensive and you asked me to leave, that is in no way a free speech or censorship issue.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

The organizers were not the university. You or I can rent a room at the university any time we want. Especially if we want what we say to sound academic.

Fine...but Coulter isnt the "organizer" here...in any way.

Im not sure what that really matters however, as the point is that the whole thing was stopped because of a perceived threat to her.

Its just not right that in any free society that anyone should not be allowed to speak what they believe because there is a possibility of harm to them. Its so anti-free society i cant imagine anyone would be OK with it.

A private organization (like a University) is completely free to shut down a speaking event on their properly based on whatever criteria they choose and it doesn't violate anyone's rights.

Then they shouldn't have allowed the room to be rented to begin with, and i dont believe for a second they had any problem with her speaking there. On top of that I believe that the University gets public funding as well..though that may be wrong.

This is a part of the UO charter for students...

Whereas the University and its students share the task of maintaining a climate of freedom, mutual respect and fairness, and are responsible for ensuring that all students at the University of Ottawa are aware of their rights;

Instead they would not be practicing what they preach had they not allowed her to talk because they dont like what she has to say.

i think this whole debate boils down to one thing...and that is, that no matter how inane and nonsensical Ann Coulters (or anyones) views are, there should be absolutely no limits on them to speak them. Period. Not in a country that likes to believe how "advanced" it is like Canada does. Especially when the limit is caused by a threat to her or anyone else...that is going backwards in a quick hurry.

People complain about the right wing nutbars in the USA, and rightfully so, but this is just as reprehensible in my opinion. I dont like the woman or much of anything that comes out of her horseface mouth....but she has every right to speak it.

[yads]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this right to freedom of speech concept only guarantees that the government won't censor free speech. A private organization (like a University) is completely free to shut down a speaking event on their properly based on whatever criteria they choose and it doesn't violate anyone's rights.

If I came into your home and started spouting crazy nonsense which you and your family found offensive and you asked me to leave, that is in no way a free speech or censorship issue.

I think you're wrong.