Has the USA finally had enough of Israel's foot dragging and obstruction?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Hey, here's hoping...would be nice to get something for our trillion or three, ha.

Yeah no kidding.

Thinking back, absolutely ridiculous that they blew so much money. Then again, we ARE talking about the US government.

[blankall]

I'm normally pretty pro-Israel but find the idea of the settlements pretty distasteful.

Arguing about East Jerusalem is a little pointless at this time though. Regardless of who is right or wrong, the Israeli policies have resulted in facts being changed on the ground. If the Palestinians really wanted the 1967 borders then they should have accepted them in 1967 instead of attacking their neighbours. I think ultimately what you will see is a land swap, with arab majorities in the North of Israel as opposed to a return to the 1967 borders.

Although I think Israel should do their best job to return as much land to the Palestinians, I also see the Israeli point that they fought for the land in a defensive war. If my neighbour tried to invade me and I was able to push them back I wouldn't want to give everything back and sit there waiting for the next invasion. In that sense the settlements are a stront strategical move, both physically in that they create a buffer between the arabs and the main parts of jerusalem and as far as bargaining goes.

Had the Palestinians persued peaceful negotiations from the get go, things may have been different.

We should all remember what happened the last time Israel withdrew unilaterally from a territory. The local population elected Hamas and spent the next few years launching rockets into Israel. Essentially forcing Israel to evacuate the bottom part of the country. Now Israel is being asked to abandon a territory that woudl give these rockets access to Israel's major cities.

Anyways to get back on topic, I think that Israel was showing extremely poor judgement. Or at least that is how it looks.

Like I said earlier, I think this whole "diplomatic row" may just be a sham to improve Israel's bargaining posture:

1) it gives Israel another thing to throw away during bargaining. These settlements are not going to happen for several years anyway. So Israel can throw them in as an act of goodwill for the meantime. if negotiations fall apart they can start construction.

2) It gives the US the image they are playing hard ball with Israel. It makes the US seem like a fair negotiator even though nothing has changed.

[blankall]

Also to comment on aid to Israel.

The US gives Israel about 2.5 billion in aid a year. About 2.3 billion of this is milatary aid. A large portion of this military aid is used by the Israeli government to purchase weapons from the US. So in many cases it's more of a discount/coupon than pure aid.

Israel is also one of the only countries on the Earth that has ever gone to war for the US. In the 1950s they went to war with Egypt at the request of the US.

Israel is also one of the only countries that regularly supplies the US with military technologies. Much of the US's current intelligence and counter-terrorism technology were supplied by Israel.

The US also annually gives 500 million to Jordan, 500 million to the Palestinians, 2 billion to Egypt and close to 20 billion to Iraq. Israel is not the only country in the world to receive aid from the US.

The idea that the US is supplying Israel with extreme amounts of money unfairly and without anything in return is just BS. The US receives much in return from Israel, and the US also supplies large amounts of money to other countries in the region.

[Pastiche]

At one point, not long ago, the largest recipient of military aid from the U.S. was Turkey. Interesting fact.

[transplant99]

All arabs are knuckle dragging, blood thirsty war mongers and should be rounded up and killed! Death to the Arabs!

Nobody is saying that whatsoever. Weaksauce.

Long live an independant and free Jewish homeland!

That would be great....what's the problem with it?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nobody is saying that whatsoever. Weaksauce.



That would be great....what's the problem with it?

I guess the concepts of sarcasm and exageration are lost on some people.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nobody is saying that whatsoever. Weaksauce.

Although in this particular case Israel is clearly knuckle dragging (I think for strategic purposes, as opposed to an unwillingness to negotiate). The thread title clearly suggests Israel has a history of being a nuckle dragger, which is what is solely responsible for the present conflict.

When you have two people engaged in a conflict and only call one side out, it suggests that only that one side is guilty. It would be like having a fight in the NHL and only assessing a penalty to one of the parties.

[amorak]

Why don't we nuke the entire place and start from scratch?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by amorak

Why don't we nuke the entire place and start from scratch?

This comment is so insightful and new I am surprised mykalberta didn't post it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by blankall

Also to comment on aid to Israel.

The US gives Israel about 2.5 billion in aid a year. About 2.3 billion of this is milatary aid. A large portion of this military aid is used by the Israeli government to purchase weapons from the US. So in many cases it's more of a discount/coupon than pure aid.

Israel is also one of the only countries on the Earth that has ever gone to war for the US. In the 1950s they went to war with Egypt at the request of the US.

Israel is also one of the only countries that regularly supplies the US with military technologies. Much of the US's current intelligence and counter-terrorism technology were supplied by Israel.

The US also annually gives 500 million to Jordan, 500 million to the Palestinians, 2 billion to Egypt and close to 20 billion to Iraq. Israel is not the only country in the world to receive aid from the US.

The idea that the US is supplying Israel with extreme amounts of money unfairly and without anything in return is just BS. The US receives much in return from Israel, and the US also supplies large amounts of money to other countries in the region.

And $2.5 billion is nothing to the US.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This comment is so insightful and new I am surprised mykalberta didn't post it.

[Azure]

Why do people keep saying its a 'Jewish' homeland. Sure, I get it....Israel/Jews...blah, blah, blah.

But there are a lot of other ethnic groups living in Israel as well.

Its not JUST a Jewish state.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Wow, I'm beginning to think that whoever called you an idiot before was right. Show me one place where I said Israel is "the cause of all terrorist attacks". You seriously need to take some reading comprehension lessons.

Btw, I'm passionate about this because clearly I'm a jew hating anti-semite nazi. Duh.

Here is exactly what you wrote:

"A lot of the terrorism plots and anti-west sentiment stem from relations between the countries in the middle east. I honestly think a lot of the terrorist blow back we get out west is how we treat Israel like the golden boy who cannot do wrong, even when it clearly does. Now obviously they are the most western and advanced of the middle east nations and we share a lot of the same values, but I just don't think they are worth protecting. There's too much blowback in our backyards for their actions."

I disagree 100% and think blaming Israel for international terrorism is pretty ignorant. So please differentiate for me between the terrorist attacks aimed at us versus terrorist attacks aimed at us because of Israel so I can clearly understand your point.

Let's say for a second that Israel no longer existed. Would this be the end of terrorism or would Greece be next? Maybe some other country? In some far off country there is a group of people snickering at the likes of people like you who have somehow, a world away, rationalized their objectives to be somehow the blame of Israel. There is a massive movement taking place, and Israel is simply too Western for their liking. The Palestinians are simply their pawn and being used for this purpose. Any democracy close to the epicenter of this movement is in their aim. The cold war went through similar movements, this is strangely similar.

And trust me, I don't think for a second you are a "Jew hating anti-semite nazi". I do believe that you have bitten from the propaganda that is sweeping across the universities in Canada. So quite the 'reverse name calling' and how you are now a 'victim' because you dared criticize Israel. Be clear with your accusations and we can chat about this.

What do you think of Apartheid Week? Is this something you support?

[Flash Walken]

Nage, what is the root cause of terrorism?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why do people keep saying its a 'Jewish' homeland. Sure, I get it....Israel/Jews...blah, blah, blah.

But there are a lot of other ethnic groups living in Israel as well.

Its not JUST a Jewish state.

Officially, it is a Jewish state though. It's laws and government are based on the Jewish religion and culture. Things like property ownership and immigration are biased toward people with a Jewish heritage. Despite this, it's worth noting that Arabs in Israel still enjoy a higher level of freedom and higher standard of living than Arabs in most other ME countries.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why do people keep saying its a 'Jewish' homeland. Sure, I get it....Israel/Jews...blah, blah, blah.

But there are a lot of other ethnic groups living in Israel as well.

Its not JUST a Jewish state.

BZZZT

Wrong. Israel is a theocratic Jewish state enshrined in their laws.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Officially, it is a Jewish state though. It's laws and government are based on the Jewish religion and culture. Things like property ownership and immigration are biased toward people with a Jewish heritage. Despite this, it's worth noting that Arabs in Israel still enjoy a higher level of freedom and higher standard of living than Arabs in most other ME countries.

Which is exactly my point.

Officially it might be a Jewish state, but its not like other ethnic groups can't have a very high quality of life in Israel.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which is exactly my point.

Officially it might be a Jewish state, but its not like other ethnic groups can't have a very high quality of life in Israel.

Sure, as long as they're not from Palestine.

[_Q_]

Hey Nage. Why was there never any terrorist attacks anywhere prior to 1948?

Let me get this straight, so what you are saying is.

A. Muslims hate the world
B. All palestinians are muslims.
C. The root of hatred directed towards Israel is based on Muslim hatered towards freedom and has nothing to do with Israels policies.
D. Muslims also hate greece for no reason

Nice. Everything is so clear now. Thanks bro!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sure, as long as they're not from Palestine.

Harvard disagrees.

• A great majority of both Jewish citizens (73%) and Arab citizens (94%) want Israel to be a society in which Arab and Jewish citizens have mutual respect and equal opportunities.
• 68% of Jewish citizens support teaching conversational Arabic in Jewish schools to help bring Arab and Jewish citizens together.
• 77% of Arab citizens would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.
• More than two-thirds of Jewish citizens (69%) believe contributing to coexistence is a personal responsibility; a majority (58%) of Jewish citizens also support cabinet level action.
• Arab citizens and Jewish citizens both underestimate their communities’ liking of the “other.”
• Urgent action on coexistence in Israel is desired: 66% of Jewish citizens and 84% of Arab citizens believe the Israeli government investments should begin now, and not wait until the end of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.