Has the USA finally had enough of Israel's foot dragging and obstruction?

[amorak]

I cant read!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by amorak

I cant read!

Not surprised, having lived in the knuckle dragging theocracy that is Alberta.

Can you believe they have a creationist museum there?

What a load of backward religious hicks.

amirite?

[Flash Walken]

Supplemental Reading:

http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/3...k-on-Iran.html

[bcb]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Supplemental Reading:

http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/3...k-on-Iran.html

You cited Aljazeera?

I hope you don't rely on them for all your news...

On the upside, I hear they have better programming than the CBC

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Supplemental Reading:

http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/3...k-on-Iran.html

Hate to break it to you but this is not a news story. Read it closely. It's editorial mixed with a few out of context quotes.

Iran has threatened Israel with violence many many times. It has never been the other way around.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by bcb

You cited Aljazeera?

I hope you don't rely on them for all your news...

On the upside, I hear they have better programming than the CBC

Quotes are quotes...doesnt matter where they are printed, especially when it written by an American journalist.

Its a good article....though the author is a well known anti-war at any cost guy.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by blankall

Hate to break it to you but this is not a news story. Read it closely. It's editorial mixed with a few out of context quotes.

Iran has threatened Israel with violence many many times. It has never been the other way around.

Ummm...what??

here is the most recent.

Israeli Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Yaalon says Israel might use force to prevent Iran from developing "nuclear weapons," a claim Iran vehemently rejects.

"Iran's plan will probably be stopped by a regime change or, if there is no other choice, by recourse to force to deprive Iran of its nuclear arms production capabilities," Yaalon told a security conference in Herzliya.

"It is important to continue to make clear to the extremist regime in Iran that all options remain on the table and that ignoring the demands of the international community will probably end in bitter tears for Iran," AFP quoted Yaalon as saying on Wednesday

Its not like Israel is completely innocent here..and i understand their great discern at Iran getting nukes, but lets not cloud the facts.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020104

[blankall]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Quotes are quotes...doesnt matter where they are printed, especially when it written by an American journalist.

Its a good article....though the author is a well known anti-war at any cost guy.

Its a good article except that it makes up a ton of facts and makes all sorts of arguments about Israel's intentions without any evidence to back them up.

After reading that you would think that Israel was responsible for the US's decision to go to war with Afghanistan and their sole goal is full out war with Iran.

Israel has more to lose in a full out war with Iran than anyone. Especially considering that Israel is now within range of rocket attacks from Iran. Not to mention Iran has a proxy army next door in Lebanon.

[pepper24]

It's funny I have a few Jewish friends where most don't like the creation of Israel and Zionism. Their parents/grandparents feel the same and initially welcomed the Jewish State of Israel. They think it's a huge mistake and in the long run will hurt their people.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by pepper24

It's funny I have a few Jewish friends where most don't like the creation of Israel and Zionism. Their parents/grandparents feel the same and initially welcomed the Jewish State of Israel. They think it's a huge mistake and in the long run will hurt their people.

There are many many jews who criticize Israel. I have met very few who are against having an Israel at all.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by pepper24

It's funny I have a few Jewish friends where most don't like the creation of Israel and Zionism. Their parents/grandparents feel the same and initially welcomed the Jewish State of Israel. They think it's a huge mistake and in the long run will hurt their people.

Legitimate criticism of Israel is like criticizing France: totally acceptable.

Holding Israel to a higher standard than any other country and/or suggesting Israel is an 'illegal occupation' like so many armchair critics do, is not acceptable.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by blankall

There are many many jews who criticize Israel. I have met very few who are against having an Israel at all.

Small sample size on my part as I only know a few Jewish families. Not a large population in Calgary. They are proud of their heritage but just don't think that the Jews need their own state in a problem part of the world. They think the negatives outway the positives.

They also told me that there are only something like only 14 MM Jews in the entire world. Israel and New York City have about half of the population. The rest are spread around other US major cities like Chicago and LA then the rest of the Jews are very sparse around the world. Also, they told me that outside of Israel that Tehran has the largest population of Jews in the Middle East. In most cases, they are welcomed in Iran's society and sucessful Jewish Iranians. If true, it's odd that Israel and the US won't report that kind of info

[bcb]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Small sample size on my part as I only know a few Jewish families. Not a large population in Calgary. They are proud of their heritage but just don't think that the Jews need their own state in a problem part of the world. They think the negatives outway the positives.

They also told me that there are only something like only 14 MM Jews in the entire world. Israel and New York City have about half of the population. The rest are spread around other US major cities like Chicago and LA then the rest of the Jews are very sparse around the world. Also, they told me that outside of Israel that Tehran has the largest population of Jews in the Middle East. In most cases, they are welcomed in Iran's society and sucessful Jewish Iranians. If true, it's odd that Israel and the US won't report that kind of info

Iran has a Jewish population that has been shrinking since the Islamic revolution of 1979.

In fairness, Iran, unlike many of its neighbors, has a constitution that guarantees equality of all religions provided they don't proselytize.

That being said, Tehran is not a friendly place for Jews, so there has been a steady flow of Iranian Jews to Israel and the US (particularly Long Island).

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by bcb

Legitimate criticism of Israel is like criticizing France: totally acceptable.

Holding Israel to a higher standard than any other country and/or suggesting Israel is an 'illegal occupation' like so many armchair critics do, is not acceptable.

I don't think my Jewish friends think that it's an illegal occupation if that's what you're referring to.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by bcb

You cited Aljazeera?

I hope you don't rely on them for all your news...

No, I get the rest of it from FoxNews.

[Azure]

Again I ask, why should Israel care what the US says?

The biggest problem Israel faces right now is Iran, and the US and the rest of the security council has bent over for Iran up to this point. How do you think that makes Israel feel?

Secondly, I certainly think that Israel is often at fault. They make plenty of mistakes both politically and militarily. Sort of like the US. Hell, even Canada screws up once in a while. Does that mean we should close up shop and move? I'm sure Quebec would love it if we all moved south and gave them the whole country.

Israel is a democracy, and there has been plenty of backlash against political and military decisions made by their government in their OWN country. I think some of you are completely avoiding that. And no I'm not going to go dig up facts. Do it yourself.

Thirdly, the US is NEVER going to stop supporting Israel. Ever.

And last of all, Israel isn't the only country that does a lot of foot dragging and obstruction in the Middle East. Can we please start a 2nd thread to deal with those other countries? Please, thanks.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by bcb

Legitimate criticism of Israel is like criticizing France: totally acceptable.

Is it though? More often than not, as soon as someone tries to do that, the inevitable anti-Semite card is pulled. Sure happened fast in this thread. Its clearly a pretty hot potato.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Is it though? More often than not, as soon as someone tries to do that, the inevitable anti-Semite card is pulled. Sure happened fast in this thread. Its clearly a pretty hot potato.

I think some of the people criticizing Israel are completely out to lunch.

And I also think some of the people defending Israel are out to lunch too.

That being said, I will defend Israel as long as I live. They have every right to be there, and have every right to defend themselves.

We're not looking at any of the issues that face them as issues that face a country concerned about their survival. We're looking at them like we look at issues here in Canada. We love to bitch and moan about our politicians and bitch about our military, and bitch about....well, our country. Its human nature.

Its different for the people living there. I wonder what we would think if our hometown was a warzone, or if there were sirens going off every single day because of danger from rocket attacks.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Is it though? More often than not, as soon as someone tries to do that, the inevitable anti-Semite card is pulled. Sure happened fast in this thread. Its clearly a pretty hot potato.

Why don't you tell us who was claiming that Israel is the cause of all the terrorist attacks? Please explain.

[Table 5]

Again I ask, why should Israel care what the US says?

Because the U.S keeps Israel alive. Israel is the largest recipient of U.S foreign aid...1/3rd of all foreign aid goes to Israel, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's population and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes.

Since 1949 the US has given Israel 84 billion dollars. 84 billion. You'd think that would allow for some respect to come back this way.

Israel is a democracy, and there has been plenty of backlash against political and military decisions made by their government in their OWN country. I think some of you are completely avoiding that. And no I'm not going to go dig up facts. Do it yourself.

Hey man, if you're going to make these kinds of statements, don't be lazy, and bring the facts to the table. We'll listen....or at least I will.

Thirdly, the US is NEVER going to stop supporting Israel. Ever.

Don't see it happening either. Doesn't mean the terms can't be altered though. As an American tax payer, I'm not sure how comfortable I am with sending so much money to a relatively well-off country when this one is absolutely falling apart.

And last of all, Israel isn't the only country that does a lot of foot dragging and obstruction in the Middle East.

I'm not sure why it has to be an either or situation. I've maintained in this entire thread that the other side is just as (and often more) loonie than Israel. What I've been advocating for is more responsibility on the part of Israel to negotiate with goodwill considering how much aid the country gets to do so.