Where do these people live?!

[PyramidsofMars]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/...-minority.html

look at the comments!

While many of them are reasonable concerns about immigration, integration, the economy, etc. etc. Some are just insane nonsense like 'go back to where you came from' and 'if I'm going to be a minority in my own country I might as well move somewhere sunnier' and 'thank god I'm going to be gone' and 'I'm not going to like 2031'.

Jesus.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, a 'visible minority' hardly meant a first-generation immigrant. I'm sure the visible minority population which has been here for generations is not insignificant, and I'm part of it. Where are these people hiding? I know that these stories get posted on white supremacist forums, and many of them make a point of both voting on the comments and making them, but this is still a bit bizarre and unsettling.

In any case, it's not surprising; there has ALWAYS been anti-immigrant sentiment in Canada. When the Klan were big in Alberta in the 1920's, they were focused on Eastern Europeans, and ethnic tensions have always been a part of Canada's fabric. It's just depressing that ther are so many people out there who operate on the logic that if people look different to me they must be different to me, and I'll go and play in this sandbox where most people look like me.

I'm going to laugh so much if there's a mass exodus of the brilliant minds that most racists and bigots are to Iceland or Finland or somewhere, and they ruin those countries like they claim non-whites are ruining Canada.

[Jordan!]

My only beef is with immigrants who go to North America to become richer.. while already being rich in their own country. It just doesn't make much logical sense to me.

Immigrants who NEED to relocate are more than welcome in my opinion i.e. People from disaster zones or refugees from war torn countries.

Am I dead wrong??? I'm open to having anyone here change my opinion..

[Huntingwhale]

[frinkprof]

User-submitted comments on news media articles are terrible. They are the worst development in the whole trend towards "interactive content."

They are to the internet what a fart is to a long elevator ride.

Anyone looking to user comments to gain insight into anything is just a sucker for punishment. It's a cesspool of misinformation and vitriol.

I wish news media websites would just do away with them or change the format into something more like a moderated message board where users can quote and respond to other comments, and a single user can be held accountable for his/her previous comments rather than having each comment being treated as a one-off anonomous rant. Problem is that I doubt the newspapers would want the responsibility of maintaining something like a message board.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My only beef is with immigrants who go to North America to become richer.. while already being rich in their own country. It just doesn't make much logical sense to me.

Immigrants who NEED to relocate are more than welcome in my opinion i.e. People from disaster zones or refugees from war torn countries.

Am I dead wrong??? I'm open to having anyone here change my opinion..

meh, we live in a globalized world. One may also move, despite being well-off, simply because they prefer a country. Or to get richer, sure.

As I said, I'm not a first-generation immigrant, but I could move somewhere like Amman and shack up with a few relatives to get started and then eventually get a new life started. And contrary to the belief of many, I could have a damn good life. Heck, there's much more culture and history in Amman than Calgary, anyhow. I just happen to stay here because I prefer it here. We are given that choice in the contemporary world, and I think that anyone who prefers Canada, even if they have a good life back home, should be welcome to join Canada so long as they contribute and are law-abiding citizens.

[FlamingStuffedTiger]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My only beef is with immigrants who go to North America to become richer.. while already being rich in their own country. It just doesn't make much logical sense to me.

Immigrants who NEED to relocate are more than welcome in my opinion i.e. People from disaster zones or refugees from war torn countries.

Am I dead wrong??? I'm open to having anyone here change my opinion..

I'll share my ideas on this:

First, not all immigrants who are already rich come here to get richer. It is possible that they might come here for other legitimate reasons.

Second, I don't have a problem with rich immigrants who come here to get richer so long as they are investing back into the countries that they chose to immigrate to.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

it sucks that there's no full version of this sketch on youtube.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My only beef is with immigrants who go to North America to become richer.. while already being rich in their own country. It just doesn't make much logical sense to me.

People who bring wealth and either invest it or are valuable workers are the ones you don't want?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

meh, we live in a globalized world. One may also move, despite being well-off, simply because they prefer a country. Or to get richer, sure.

As I said, I'm not a first-generation immigrant, but I could move somewhere like Amman and shack up with a few relatives to get started and then eventually get a new life started. And contrary to the belief of many, I could have a damn good life. Heck, there's much more culture and history in Amman than Calgary, anyhow. I just happen to stay here because I prefer it here. We are given that choice in the contemporary world, and I think that anyone who prefers Canada, even if they have a good life back home, should be welcome to join Canada so long as they contribute and are law-abiding citizens.

Amman is a pretty awesome city actually. I have a few relatives there and I can totally see myself living there one day. Although Aqbah and Petra are way cooler than Amman. I don't know, something about the middle east and the culture there always makes me want to return.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Amman is a pretty awesome city actually. I have a few relatives there and I can totally see myself living there one day. Although Aqbah and Petra are way cooler than Amman. I don't know, something about the middle east and the culture there always makes me want to return.

Aqaba and Petra are awesome to visit, but I wouldn't live in (or near) either of those places. Or really anywhere in Jordan except Amman. It's small enough a country that you can go anywhere and it wouldn't take you too long, anyway.

I think what's cool about a lot of the countries I mentioned is the youth culture. I think that even in universities in Canada there is a sort of disengaged, very cynical air to things, and even smart people tend to just gather at pubs and engage in illogical ramblings about this or that, even when they are actually discussing something interesting. I think there is also a sort of feeling among a lot of young white Canadians that Canada is irrelevant and not very interesting, which sorts of infects their whole worldview, attitude, and life (I guess they feel that they, as a result, are not particularly relevant or interesting). A sort of comfortable, 'well, that's Canada, eh' attitude that I find very few Arab youth- whether in Arabia or not- have. In major Arab cities one really can find those cafes of lore, a sort of gathering place of culture and intellect, and really driven by passion. In Canada, a lot of the places that purport to be such places are filled with vacant, disengaged hipsters. And don't get me started on how the average discussion at a Canadian pub compares to discussions I overheard at cafes and just on the street in Amman.

A lot of it is also just the fact that Arabia has more history and culture than Canada. Sorry, that's a fact. I'd rather live here and be a Canadian than be a Jordanian in Amman, but I would never say that Calgary is a more interesting city than Amman. Does downtown Calgary have a Roman amphitheatre? There just isn't a lot of vibrancy in most of Canada, and while I do appreciate our sleepy, somewhat self-deprecating sensibility, I do sometimes feel like going to the burbs and screaming at people to get out of their houses and take to the streets! I've actually thought about this a lot, I do really, really dig Canadian film, art, etc. The problem is that barely a goddamn soul is engaged in Canadian culture. The minority of culturally engaged, vibrant Canadians make awesome art and awesome films and write awesome books. But when you seek out that circle, you realize just how absolutely, miserably tiny that circle is. Sociopolitically, we are the best country in the world. Quality of life is excellent. But to seek out the amazing sensation that you are in the middle of something bigger than yourself, one is often forced to look outside North America. Maybe if I lived in Toronto or New York I would think differently, I don't know.

Winning hockey gold was one of the few moments I felt I was in the middle of something bigger than myself in Canada, in my whole life.

[Devils'Advocate]

Reading the comments on CBC are incredibly disheartening. You can say that these people are a vocal minority of crackpots, but it over so many articles, or so many sites. That there is one person spouting these views is disappointing. That there are so many is depressing.

And it's odd that it seems predominantly bad on the CBC articles. You would think that the people visiting the CBC page would be of a particular political bend if you will... and that political bias generally does not include xenophobia. Their website just seems to be a crackpot magnet.

They do moderate some of the board, such as the article on the death of the Georgian luger. If they hadn't it would have been full of "Woohoo! One less competitor to beat! Go Canada!" or "I can watch that video 100 times... it never gets old!" or "Where does this guy train? There's no ice/snow in the southern US." Every article is the same... there are some very, very, very messed up people out there.

I agree with what was said above. It a moderated forum environment it would be easier to confront these asshats, but right now it is just one big depressing mess.

[Rifleman]

It's a very vocal minority saying these things. They want to be as loud as possible, to make people think this type of backwards view is the norm.

[Devils'Advocate]

I was reading the article about the guy with the swastika tattoo in Edmonton that went in and started shooting up the car dealership where he worked.

The comments are along the lines of "White people need to be more proud of their race. Of course killing people is wrong, but there is nothing wrong with being proud of your race otherwise". That has 206 thumbs up and 505 thumbs down.

"I'm proud of my heritage. I'm not a white supremacist. Just a guy that is proud of his race." 100 up, 55 down.

"I'm a white public servant that is being mistreated by visible minorities in my job. Yet nobody does anything when it's them mistreating us". 100 up, 93 down

[Clarkey]

I like immigrants that make an attempt to integrate into Canadian culture (I'm not implying 'white' Canadian culture).

[FanningTheFlames]

This thread is a PC sausage fest.

These people live in Canada. They were born here, grew up here, and lived here their whole lives. They, early on, formed notions of what the community they belonged to was, and saw that definition change after it had set in.

These are people wary of holders of "passports of convenience", because the one they hold is the only one they want or need. They don't hold a Canadian passport because it is useful to them, but because it is who they are. The only hyphenated adjective before Canadian that means anything to them is "Western" or "Eastern".

They grow increasingly weary of those who put down Canada but live here because they "prefer" it somehow, and are perplexed by the attitude that one's mere presence is enriching to Canada. Lastly, they don't understand why those who come here can proudly continue to identify with the culture they left behind and, at the same time, equate those same feelings in the native-born of this land to a kind of fascism.

Where are they? They are your neighbors.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

I like immigrants that make an attempt to integrate into Canadian culture (I'm not implying 'white' Canadian culture).

Assimilation > Multiculturalism?

What the hell is wrong with identifying with the culture you left behind? My Greek co-workers revel in their Greek heritage, their children go to Greek school to learn the Greek language, go to the Greek Orthodox church and dance at the Greek festival. Maybe we should stand outside the Greek festival and tell them to go back where they came from due to the evil act of "identifying with the culture they left behind".

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by FanningTheFlames

This thread is a PC sausage fest.

These people live in Canada. They were born here, grew up here, and lived here their whole lives. They, early on, formed notions of what the community they belonged to was, and saw that definition change after it had set in.

These are people wary of holders of "passports of convenience", because the one they hold is the only one they want or need. They don't hold a Canadian passport because it is useful to them, but because it is who they are. The only hyphenated adjective before Canadian that means anything to them is "Western" or "Eastern".

They grow increasingly weary of those who put down Canada but live here because they "prefer" it somehow, and are perplexed by the attitude that one's mere presence is enriching to Canada. Lastly, they don't understand why those who come here can proudly continue to identify with the culture they left behind and, at the same time, equate those same feelings in the native-born of this land to a kind of fascism.

Where are they? They are your neighbors.

but what you are talking about are the sort of people who make the relevant, fairly reasonable comments on CBC. I have no problem with them. I have met them, they have met me. I have liked them and they have liked me. Their concern is not the colour of my skin, or where my lineage traces back to. Their concern is simply about real effects this may have on Canada. I repeat, I have no problems with them.

I am talking about those who specifically have a problem with a Canada that is not as white as it used to be. As I pointed out in the OP, nothing in the article says that immigrants will be at 30% of the population. It says visible minorities will. Last time I checked, a heck of a lot of visible minorities have been here for generations. Including myself.

Plenty of people have legit arguments against keeping immigration levels as high as they are. Including some that you cite above. None, none of these legit arguments say anything whatsoever about a rise in non-whites. The notion that having non-white skin says anything about how much you care about Canada is absolutely laughable. As I hope you agree, notions about a white country and preservation of the white race are absolutely imbecilic on every level to anyone but a nutcase white supremacist.

It's cute that you try to suggest that I put Canada down, but I never said anything of the sort. I said I was sad that Canadians were not as engaged in their culture and history, and that I felt we lacked real vibrancy. I'm doing the very opposite of putting Canada down. I'm saying how wonderful I think it is, and that I wish more people realized that. The notion that I need a Canadian passport is utterly laughable. I have a Swiss passport by birth to a Swiss mother. Do you have any clue what that means, the benefits it offers? I might rightly be called a Swiss citizen of convience (if I 'used' the country in any way, but I don't, I use only my Canadian passport), but I think that citizenship is my birth right. My life simply worked out in the way that my family preferred to settle in my father's home turf (Canada, regardless of what you may be suggesting) than my mother's. Despite your repeated attempts to link non-whiteness with first-generation recent immigration, specifically with that which treats Canada as a doormat, it is just not the case.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I was reading the article about the guy with the swastika tattoo in Edmonton that went in and started shooting up the car dealership where he worked.

The comments are along the lines of "White people need to be more proud of their race. Of course killing people is wrong, but there is nothing wrong with being proud of your race otherwise". That has 206 thumbs up and 505 thumbs down.

"I'm proud of my heritage. I'm not a white supremacist. Just a guy that is proud of his race." 100 up, 55 down.

"I'm a white public servant that is being mistreated by visible minorities in my job. Yet nobody does anything when it's them mistreating us". 100 up, 93 down

The problem is that there is a double standard, do you have a problem with phrases like "black power"? I personally don't, as long as there isn't any hatred behind it, much like someone being proud of being as white as blank paper in a snowstorm (I am a redhead, I can't help it). If there is no hatred behind their actions and they don't discriminate against other people, why not be proud of your background?

Obviously a guy with a swastika tattoo has a much different opinion than mine because that conveys a belief of superiority which is closely related to hatred.

The public service guy is likely is just a whiner who continually feels as though he is a victim.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

It's cute that you try to suggest that I put Canada down, but I never said anything of the sort. I said I was sad that Canadians were not as engaged in their culture and history, and that I felt we lacked real vibrancy. I'm doing the very opposite of putting Canada down. I'm saying how wonderful I think it is, and that I wish more people realized that. The notion that I need a Canadian passport is utterly laughable. I have a Swiss passport by birth to a Swiss mother. Do you have any clue what that means, the benefits it offers? I might rightly be called a Swiss citizen of convience (if I 'used' the country in any way, but I don't, I use only my Canadian passport), but I think that citizenship is my birth right. My life simply worked out in the way that my family preferred to settle in my father's home turf (Canada, regardless of what you may be suggesting) than my mother's. Despite your repeated attempts to link non-whiteness with first-generation recent immigration, specifically with that which treats Canada as a doormat, it is just not the case.

Why should citizenship be a birthright that you keep with you for all eternity? If you don't contribute to a nation and you only keep the passport as a get out of jail free card (literally in some peoples cases), I have a problem with that, the biggest reason being that it costs the taxpayers money. It isn't a race issue because I think that Brenda Martin falls into the same boat as those who were escaping from Lebanon only to return as soon as fighting ceased.

[Devils'Advocate]

I see "black pride" the same as "gay pride". It's something that people historically have been ashamed of, felt lesser than an equal because of.

I can't say that I'm proud of being white, or proud of being a heterosexual, I'm proud of my accomplishments in life and what I have worked for, not what I was born into. However, if I were born a gay black little person, it would be more of a struggle to be proud of who I was born as.