Anyone know which grad degrees are most useful?

[PyramidsofMars]

I'm quickly realizing my fantasies of walking hallowed halls and spending my days discussing literary theory are just that: fantasies. However, I've really always been realistic about this sort of thing. Unless you do business or IT or certain sciences, there is really no field that isn't hard to get into. I'm a simple guy, though, probably won't get married, definitely don't want kids. Don't need a six-figure salary to be happy. I guess what I'm asking about are degrees that are somewhat more viable than going the academic route in Literature. Believe it or not, English is NOT easy. It's easy enough to pass, sure, maybe, but it's incredibly hard to excel in. To get into a good MA program and work with a good scholar is very tough. To get into a good PhD program is tougher. To produce a good PhD thesis and gain placement is near impossible. The only university in Canada that has a somewhat decent placement record is the University of Toronto, and even that is not much more than 40%. Even McGill places very few of its PhD's. English academia contains some of the most unbelievably bright minds I've encountered, but it's soul-crushing, not enhancing. Not educational. It used to be different. We are asked to be in the top 2% of undergrads, then the top 2% of Masters grads, then the top 2% of PhD's. Then, to actually get tenure, the top 2% of people employed with English PhD's.

the job market for my generation is screwed, anyway, in so many respects. It used to be that a law degree would guarantee you good employment and a good salary. Now that's not really the case anymore. People keep saying to me, if you work hard enough you'll go places. I don't believe that. I've heard stories of people who graduated from Ivy League schools, have published whole books and countless articles, who, when desperate to supplement their barely existing income from awful sessional jobs with some other form of employment, have to leave all their hard work off their resume just to get a call back.

I think a Master of Counselling might be a good option. It seems like a reasonable job market, all in all.

Yes, I know somebody's going to tell me to google it. That's all well and good, sure, but I already have. And there's a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about, can't write a basic sentence of English, and are generally contradictory. I find CP usually rises above that level of discourse, so I hope I can get some decent responses, if not many.

[wooohooo]

Well what degree do you have right now? Something in Arts I presume?

I know more of the science fields but that might be a big step for you.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Well what degree do you have right now? Something in Arts I presume?

I know more of the science fields but that might be a big step for you.

I have a good foundation in psychology (as an empirical science, I mean) and neuroscience, but physics, chem, bio (outside of neuroscience I guess), etc. etc. I can't imagine myself doing.

Oh, I'm an English major right now. I haven't finished my degree.

[ma-skis.com]

I think being a doctorb is ok...

although it is my understanding that the B is for bargain, so maybe not after all. hey yo!!

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

I think being a doctorb is ok...

although it is my understanding that the B is for bargain, so maybe not after all. hey yo!!

you've cheered me up.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

I'm quickly realizing my fantasies of walking hallowed halls and spending my days discussing literary theory are just that: fantasies. However, I've really always been realistic about this sort of thing. Unless you do business or IT or certain sciences, there is really no field that isn't hard to get into. I'm a simple guy, though, probably won't get married, definitely don't want kids. Don't need a six-figure salary to be happy. I guess what I'm asking about are degrees that are somewhat more viable than going the academic route in Literature. Believe it or not, English is NOT easy. It's easy enough to pass, sure, maybe, but it's incredibly hard to excel in. To get into a good MA program and work with a good scholar is very tough. To get into a good PhD program is tougher. To produce a good PhD thesis and gain placement is near impossible. The only university in Canada that has a somewhat decent placement record is the University of Toronto, and even that is not much more than 40%. Even McGill places very few of its PhD's. English academia contains some of the most unbelievably bright minds I've encountered, but it's soul-crushing, not enhancing. Not educational. It used to be different. We are asked to be in the top 2% of undergrads, then the top 2% of Masters grads, then the top 2% of PhD's. Then, to actually get tenure, the top 2% of people employed with English PhD's.

the job market for my generation is screwed, anyway, in so many respects. It used to be that a law degree would guarantee you good employment and a good salary. Now that's not really the case anymore. People keep saying to me, if you work hard enough you'll go places. I don't believe that. I've heard stories of people who graduated from Ivy League schools, have published whole books and countless articles, who, when desperate to supplement their barely existing income from awful sessional jobs with some other form of employment, have to leave all their hard work off their resume just to get a call back.

I think a Master of Counselling might be a good option. It seems like a reasonable job market, all in all.

Yes, I know somebody's going to tell me to google it. That's all well and good, sure, but I already have. And there's a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about, can't write a basic sentence of English, and are generally contradictory. I find CP usually rises above that level of discourse, so I hope I can get some decent responses, if not many.

I know you're probably just ranting but if you think other grad programs are easier to complete or find academic placement afterward, you have another thing coming. Although, if you like to have these little pity parties you might really like grad school because pity parties are rampant.

It sounds to me like you're just trying to figure out which direction to take your life (which is something everyone goes through. . . constantly. . . their entire life). I'm not going to convince you to go into a particular program but I have some general advice for grad school. First, the most important element for grad school is to choose a supervisor that you can work with. Second, try to get a project you find stimulating. Without those two elements, grad school can be unbearable. Also, forget about the name of the institution in your grad school choice. . . it's just a label.

Finally, don't be so down on your English degree. The most important job skill is communication and an English degree helps tremendously with this. Both my Dad and brother have English degrees and they have done very well for themselves in the private sector.

By the way, as Mr Ski so eloquently put. . . I am a doctorb so I do know what I'm talking about in regards to postgraduate school.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

So what are you looking for - monetary gain or or chasing down your interests? The two aren't always compatible.

Maybe what you seek is in another Faculty all together. While I don't doubt its difficulty to attain, there are limitations to what you can take in terms of Grad Degrees afterwards with an English degree. You may find that a Bachelor's in another Faculty will take your farther than a Grad Degree, depending on what you want.

Sometimes, its the certifications or designations that may give you what you're looking for, rather than Post Secondary degrees.

the job market for my generation is screwed, anyway, in so many respects. It used to be that a law degree would guarantee you good employment and a good salary. Now that's not really the case anymore. People keep saying to me, if you work hard enough you'll go places. I don't believe that. I've heard stories of people who graduated from Ivy League schools, have published whole books and countless articles, who, when desperate to supplement their barely existing income from awful sessional jobs with some other form of employment, have to leave all their hard work off their resume just to get a call back.

Your generation is screwed precisely for attitudes like this. Yes, your worked hard for a degree - why should this be a guarantee for greatness and riches right out of the gate? Starting at the bottom and working your way up has always been the way its done. You may even have to do that for 2-6 years before you really start getting ahead.

We give our children everything but adversity.

[Shazam]

Master of Bugger All!

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by fotze

Master of B Ating

B.S. = Bull S*it
M.S. = More of the Same
PhD. = Piled Higher and Deeper

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I know you're probably just ranting but if you think other grad programs are easier to complete or find academic placement afterward, you have another thing coming. Although, if you like to have these little pity parties you might really like grad school because pity parties are rampant.

From what I understand, a bunch of other grad programs (not necessarily leading to a career in academia) are much less competitive. Not easier to complete, just holding a lesser overall standard. From speaking to Religious Studies or Theology students, that appears to be one of them. With the world climate as it is Islam is a very hot topic of study, and universities without Islam professors are very keen on finding one. Same goes with History and a focus on the near east. Buddhism might be more oversaturated an area, and studying ancient Rome would be so for History. Etc. etc. Even things like archaeology, from what I understand from talking to a professor of the subject, are less competitive. But that's not even really the focus of my post. For example, I heard that you can do okay and have a good career with a Library Science grad degree. As previously mentioned, a Master of Counseling degree. Stuff like that. I don't want to change my focus at the undergrad level, but there's lots to do, as you surely know, at the grad level which doesn't necessarily require you to have done a bachelor's in the same field.

Originally Posted by Kybosh

It sounds to me like you're just trying to figure out which direction to take your life (which is something everyone goes through. . . constantly. . . their entire life). I'm not going to convince you to go into a particular program but I have some general advice for grad school. First, the most important element for grad school is to choose a supervisor that you can work with. Second, try to get a project you find stimulating. Without those two elements, grad school can be unbearable. Also, forget about the name of the institution in your grad school choice. . . it's just a label.

Finally, don't be so down on your English degree. The most important job skill is communication and an English degree helps tremendously with this. Both my Dad and brother have English degrees and they have done very well for themselves in the private sector.

By the way, as Mr Ski so eloquently put. . . I am a doctorb so I do know what I'm talking about in regards to postgraduate school.

I'm getting mixed messages on this. One one hand, a lot of people are telling me the same thing. On the other hand, there does appear to be name bias in terms of placement. Perhaps this is just a matter of the brightest tending to go to big-name schools, and every so often you do see someone who went to Buffalo teaching at Harvard, but there seems to be a contradiction there.

I'm not down on my English degree. I'm just frustrated with my options. I sometimes wish I'd grown up in a Joe Briefcase environment so I would be excelling at a management degree, be in a frat, and become a soulless beauracrat, but a rich one.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

So what are you looking for - monetary gain or or chasing down your interests? The two aren't always compatible.

Maybe what you seek is in another Faculty all together. While I don't doubt its difficulty to attain, there are limitations to what you can take in terms of Grad Degrees afterwards with an English degree. You may find that a Bachelor's in another Faculty will take your farther than a Grad Degree, depending on what you want.

there are loads of options in grad school that don't necessarily have to follow from what you majored in. I know that I could get into psychology (a proper MSc or MA, not just counseling), based on having taken psych and neuroscience courses at the undergrad level. Same for philosophy, same for film, etc. etc. At some smaller universities, they're even more forgiving and basically just require you to take a couple of courses as preparation, which you can do after you are already enroled.

I'm really just looking for more options. Maybe stuff I haven't thought of.

[llama64]

Why do people think a Master's degree is a job ticket? And why do people think it is a Universities job to "place" you after you graduate?

Once you get an education, figure out what you want to do and/or what you're good at and cultivate marketable skills in that regard. For actually getting career type job, the answer is very rarely in a Master program (outside of a few select fields like Medicine/law).

I know I personally wouldn't invest in a Master's degree in a field simply to get a job. There are far simpler ways to do the same thing (and cheaper).

[Peanut]

Does useful = money? If so, MBA. Or Law. Or Medicine.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by llama64

Why do people think a Master's degree is a job ticket? And why do people think it is a Universities job to "place" you after you graduate?

Once you get an education, figure out what you want to do and/or what you're good at and cultivate marketable skills in that regard. For actually getting career type job, the answer is very rarely in a Master program (outside of a few select fields like Medicine/law).

I know I personally wouldn't invest in a Master's degree in a field simply to get a job. There are far simpler ways to do the same thing (and cheaper).

I don't think it's a job ticket. I know it isn't a job ticket. I know that plenty of people with English BA's have carved out a little niche for themselves and live comfortably. I am sure I won't be a bum or anything. I'm just looking for options at the graduate level. Which can lead to a higher income.

And when I talk about placement, I'm talking about people having gotten tenure-track positions after finishing their grad work, I'm not talking about the university having literally gotten people those jobs.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Does useful = money? If so, MBA. Or Law. Or Medicine.

Law school is looking increasingly like my best option, but I've heard some real horror stories about that as well, and of the ensuing career.

as I said before, I don't want to make no money, but I don't necessarily need a six-figure salary either, considering I'm perfectly happy in small apartments and don't care for the idea of having a family.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I know you're probably just ranting but if you think other grad programs are easier to complete or find academic placement afterward, you have another thing coming. Although, if you like to have these little pity parties you might really like grad school because pity parties are rampant.

Actually, I'm pretty sure if you're completing a physics or math degree and have a decent GPA (>3.0), you would have your pick of masters programs. Heck, I think U of C graduates only about 30 physics B.Sc's each year.

English majors, on the other hand could fill up the Saddledome on a nightly basis.

Another consideration is that Science and math degrees have built in career potential after graduation. Granted, you are more likely to be a successful biologist with a masters degree, but you can at least gain entry to the field (and become a professional biologist) with a B.Sc.

Many of the disciplines in the arts (eg. English, philosophy, poli sci) don't really lead to jobs in specific fields.

Anyway, my philosophy is a degree is better than no degree. And you haven't limited yourself by getting a degree, so relax. You'll be fine

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

Law school is looking increasingly like my best option, but I've heard some real horror stories about that as well, and of the ensuing career.

as I said before, I don't want to make no money, but I don't necessarily need a six-figure salary either, considering I'm perfectly happy in small apartments and don't care for the idea of having a family.

Recent grad of law school, what horror stories have you heardÉ

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Recent grad of law school, what horror stories have you heardÉ

this came to mind instantly: http://www.macleans.ca/education/uni..._109280&page=1

also stuff people have told me in person that tends to mirror that sort of thing.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

this came to mind instantly: http://www.macleans.ca/education/uni..._109280&page=1

also stuff people have told me in person that tends to mirror that sort of thing.

That really doesn't seem that bad she is well compensated for a 1st year employee 100K per + 30% bonus for 60 hrs a week of work. That works out to $40 per hour for the 1st year on the job. Might not be the ideal work life balance but the people who select those jobs should be smart enough to know what they are getting into.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by GGG

That really doesn't seem that bad she is well compensated for a 1st year employee 100K per + 30% bonus for 60 hrs a week of work. That works out to $40 per hour for the 1st year on the job. Might not be the ideal work life balance but the people who select those jobs should be smart enough to know what they are getting into.

it's more the stuff on how miserable it makes people and how often lawyers end up killing themselves and what not that scares me.

Law school itself mostly sounds like fun. It's the work that is keeping me away from it. I have the GPA for it and all.