Weird RSP / investment Acct Question

[You Need a Thneed]

12 years or so ago, I opened up a RRSP acct at my bank, and began putting a small amount into it every month. I never have touched the money in the acct, just letting it accumulate.

A couple of weeks ago, I decided I wanted to transfer the RSP money into a direct investing acct, where I can buy/trade my own stocks with that money.

Long story short, there was a problem with the transfer, and they have me call them. They tell me that they cannot make the transfer because the two accounts are not of the same type (apparently). My new direct investing acct is registered, but this RRSP account I started 12 years ago is somehow not showing up as a registered account according to the bank - just a regular investment acct. The bank guy I just talked to seemed to say that there was no record of a registered acct ever being tied to my name there.

I know with 100% certainty that the account was originally applied for as an RRSP, and I know that I have never asked to change it. I know I've gotten tax slips for the RRSP amount contributed for this acct in previous years (I have no other RRSP accts that I could confuse it with)

What do I do here? Is there any tax problems that I could concievablely get into? I've been entering the RRSP amounts contributed into my taxes every year (I think without forms for the last couple of years), I think the bank has sent me T3s for the acct too, which I've entered into my taxes (The interest earned/growth would have small amounts - but I should check how much it actually affected my taxes from past years returns).

[yads]

Wait so they sent you RRSP deduction slips as well as income earned slips for the account? If the account was not registered I'd imagine you'd be on the hook for the tax breaks you got.

[VladtheImpaler]

Can't you fax your RRSP receipts to the bank along with a polite "WTF?" letter? Make sure to include a line such as "I expect _____ (name of bank) to indemnify me for any losses I incur as a result of your error"...

[amorak]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Can't you fax your RRSP reciepts to the bank along with a polite "WTF?" letter? Make sure to include a line such as "I expect _____ (name of bank) to indemnify me for any losses I incur as a result of your error"...

This.

If you have proof from PY RRSP contribution slips, I'm pretty sure the bank will kick it into gear to 'find' teh missing RRSP registration docs...

[You Need a Thneed]

I'll have to see if I can find something from years back that shows the acct as an RRSP. I think I might have something, but I wasn't great at keeping all my bank statements back then.

Anyway, the bank is going to do an investigation.

Originally Posted by yads

Wait so they sent you RRSP deduction slips as well as income earned slips for the account? If the account was not registered I'd imagine you'd be on the hook for the tax breaks you got.

Thinking back, I don't think I've gotten both slips in the same year. I know back when I started, I was getting the RRSP slips. then, IIRC, a couple of years back, I got a T3 investment income slip.

My documents are at home, I'll have to look through them.

[amorak]

All you should need is the contribution statement(s) from a past year(s) showing an RRSP contribution into that account and their hands are tied.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I know with 100% certainty that the account was originally applied for as an RRSP, and I know that I have never asked to change it. I know I've gotten tax slips for the RRSP amount contributed for this acct in previous years (I have no other RRSP accts that I could confuse it with)

).

Were you deducting the amounts from your taxes? Was Revenue Canada accepting those slips as deductions?

I think the bank has sent me T3s for the acct too, which I've entered into my taxes

You shouldn't be getting tax slips for income/capital gains for earnings inside an RSP. That should raise a red flag that the bank might be right in the sense you may not have what you think you have.

Cowperson

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

12 years or so ago, I opened up a RRSP acct at my bank, and began putting a small amount into it every month. I never have touched the money in the acct, just letting it accumulate.

A couple of weeks ago, I decided I wanted to transfer the RSP money into a direct investing acct, where I can buy/trade my own stocks with that money.

Long story short, there was a problem with the transfer, and they have me call them. They tell me that they cannot make the transfer because the two accounts are not of the same type (apparently). My new direct investing acct is registered, but this RRSP account I started 12 years ago is somehow not showing up as a registered account according to the bank - just a regular investment acct. The bank guy I just talked to seemed to say that there was no record of a registered acct ever being tied to my name there.

I know with 100% certainty that the account was originally applied for as an RRSP, and I know that I have never asked to change it. I know I've gotten tax slips for the RRSP amount contributed for this acct in previous years (I have no other RRSP accts that I could confuse it with)

What do I do here? Is there any tax problems that I could concievablely get into? I've been entering the RRSP amounts contributed into my taxes every year (I think without forms for the last couple of years), I think the bank has sent me T3s for the acct too, which I've entered into my taxes (The interest earned/growth would have small amounts - but I should check how much it actually affected my taxes from past years returns).

RRSP accounts DO NOT have T3's attached to them.

[You Need a Thneed]

I know if I can find something to back my side up, I'll be fine. What if I can't? What would be my worries? The amounts on the taxes would be fairly small, nothing too serious.

The worst case scenario for going forward is they can sell everything in my "investment account" and put it into my bank account, and from there I could put it into my new direct investing RSP account.

But then again, the only reason why I made the new acct an RRSP was so that I could switch without adding the amount to my income for the year. If it does show up as a investment acct, I could transfer it into my direct investing TFSA account (which I'd rather do). Maybe I should just have them sell it off, then put the money in my TFSA, and hope they don't audit me for the couple hundred in tax savings I got every year.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Mccree

RRSP accounts DO NOT have T3's attached to them.

Thinking about it some more, I'm not sure if I ever got a T3 for that account. I think it was for my high interest savings acct.

I'll have to go through my records, and see what I have.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Were you deducting the amounts from your taxes? Was Revenue Canada accepting those slips as deductions?

I've always filed online, so I don't have to send the slips along, just have them on hand.

I don't know how far back I still have them on hand. I have the last 4-5 years probably.

[VladtheImpaler]

Well, if you got T3's, as opposed to RRSP receipts, I presume you weren't claiming your contributions on your returns? Or were you erroneously? If you were, by law you have to go back and declare the error and pay appropriate taxes/penalties. The good news would be that you can do whatever you want with the money, as you have already been taxed on it.
If the amounts involved are substantial, PM and I can give you the name of a superb tax lawyer/accountant, and he can actually give appropriate advice.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I've always filed online, so I don't have to send the slips along, just have them on hand.

I don't know how far back I still have them on hand. I have the last 4-5 years probably.

Well, the CCRA computers are pretty clever. They would get RSP contribution records from the bank so if you weren't on that tape, I would have thought you would have been smoked out long before this.

But you shouldn't be paying taxes on income earned inside an RSP.

The consequence for you is that you have been claiming deductions you didn't have and will have to have your taxes recalculated, with a balance likely owing. There may be a penalty of some sort as well based on the balance owing. It's a debate as to whether or not you turn yourself in with good faith or wait until or if they find out on their own.

Better dig in your boxes and see if you can find actual, genuine contribution slips.

If you can produce those, then you're looking good.

The fact the bank was sending you income slips, however, doesn't look good.

There's a contradiction here. You need to clear up those two things.

I would say, however, from your description, that you do not have an RSP.

That doesn't have to be a bad thing in the end either as it means you have a pile of tax-paid money - well, almost tax-paid!!!

Cowperson

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Well, if you got T3's, as opposed to RRSP receipts, I presume you weren't claiming your contributions on your returns? Or were you erroneously? If you were, by law you have to go back and declare the error and pay appropriate taxes/penalties. The good news would be that you can do whatever you want with the money, as you have already been taxed on it.
If the amounts involved are substantial, PM and I can give you the name of a superb tax lawyer/accountant, and he can actually give appropriate advice.

I have a T5 from my high interest savings here, so if I got a T3, it wouldn't have been from that. I have the forms from last years taxes here, and I didn't see any T3. I just looked through my tax stuff for this year yesterday, and I didn't see a T3 either.

I was claiming RRSP amounts on my taxes, because I always assumed that if I didn't have the form, that I had just misplaced it. The amounts are really pretty small ($400 per year contribution). So, I definitely haven't been taxed on it, whether its correctly, or incorrectly we'll have to see.

So, if the bank is in the wrong (they are), I should be totally in the clear tax wise. However, if nothing can be produced to show that they are in the wrong, I'd have filed my taxes incorrectly for a number of years, which I'd legally have to correct, but I'd be free to do with my money as I please. How many years would I have to go back to correct it? Is there a cap on that?

[You Need a Thneed]

getting a T3 sounds familiar, but I'll have to look at previous years taxes and my slips I have on hand to see whether I've actually gotten one. I may not have.

I may just be remembering this T5 that I found here for my high interest savings acct.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I have a T5 from my high interest savings here, so if I got a T3, it wouldn't have been from that. I have the forms from last years taxes here, and I didn't see any T3. I just looked through my tax stuff for this year yesterday, and I didn't see a T3 either.

I was claiming RRSP amounts on my taxes, because I always assumed that if I didn't have the form, that I had just misplaced it. The amounts are really pretty small ($400 per year contribution). So, I definitely haven't been taxed on it, whether its correctly, or incorrectly we'll have to see.

So, if the bank is in the wrong (they are), I should be totally in the clear tax wise. However, if nothing can be produced to show that they are in the wrong, I'd have filed my taxes incorrectly for a number of years, which I'd legally have to correct, but I'd be free to do with my money as I please. How many years would I have to go back to correct it? Is there a cap on that?

Well, it's the bank's fault if you can PROVE it's the bank's fault. I honestly don't know how far back you have to go - I don't think there is a statute of limitations on tax evasion. The fact that RSA hasn't bugged you suggests you are likely in the clear, but the letter of the law is that you have to come forward. Given the small amounts, you don't owe much I am sure. You really have to see if you have a copy of your initial forms to set up the account, and any and all statements/receipts you've received over the years...

[Agamemnon]

Wouldn't the RSP slip be included in your previous year's taxes? Do you have copies of your taxes anywhere?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Wouldn't the RSP slip be included in your previous year's taxes? Do you have copies of your taxes anywhere?

I have taxes back for at least 5 years. Maybe further than that, but I don't know where they are further back than that.

[Shazam]

TD bank?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Shazam

TD bank?

nope.