What's a 'dost'? Canada to change National Anthem?

[publicpoetry]

Following the tragic death of Calgary Herald journalist Michelle Lang in Afghanistan, the Foundation for Public Poetry/Fondation Poésie Publique in January 2010 commenced a contest to rewrite the line "True patriot love in all thy sons command." This initiative was done so in her memory, in her honour, and in honour of all women who contribute to building our great nation.

Entries were received from all 10 provinces. After considerable review, the selected line chosen was: True patriot love in all persons command. The word "persons" is to be sung with the same "sons" sound as in the current version(i.e. True patriot love in all per/sons command.)

A shortlist had been submitted to three members of the original author's (Robert Stanley Weir's) descendants. The shortlist can be seen at www.publicpoetry.wordpress.com

The idea of replacing a poet's words(even a long-departed one) is not to be taken lightly. If O Canada was not Canada's national anthem, designated by Parliamentary decree, the original author's work ought not be altered.

However, the object of ensuring the anthem reflect gender inclusivity is significant. This was the underlying reason for initiating the "contest." Another major object was to maintain as best as possible Judge Robert Stanley Weir's original spirit and words.

"I favour #3 (True patriot love in all persons command) as it will mean the least disruption to the way we sing it now, even though the sentiment of #1(Faithful and diverse, in unity we stand) is most appealing," commented Sonia Weir Stairs of British Columbia, a Judge Weir great-granddaughter.


Another Weir family member, Timothy J. Foulkes of New Brunswick found the "person" version acceptable.

"I was singing O Canada to myself last night on a walk through the woods and, like Sonia, I also like "per sons" because it can be sung by hold-outs who wish to sing "thy sons" without creating disharmony," wrote Foulkes(grandson of Judge Weir) in an email.

Another Weir family member, Stephen W.W. Simpson of Quebec, submitted his comments by telephone.

This recommendation has been forwarded to the Canadian Senate, as the amendment contains an historic Senate reference. More information about the Persons reference can be seen at The Persons Case . Regardless of the process that ultimately comes forward, we seek your support.

The individual who submitted the selected line has requested anonymity, citing "the credit for O Canada is rightfully Robert Stanley Weir's." The Foundation for Public Poetry agrees.

It looks like the issue is going into overtime.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Why do people want to keep F'ing with the anthem? the opening ceremonies were bad enough, now an official screw around?
I will take my pitchfork into the streets and march to parliament if this happens.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Why do people want to keep F'ing with the anthem?

Because the anthem F'ing sucks!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SebC

Because the anthem F'ing sucks!

WTF?????????

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by publicpoetry

Following the tragic death of Calgary Herald journalist Michelle Lang in Afghanistan, the Foundation for Public Poetry/Fondation Poésie Publique in January 2010 commenced a contest to rewrite the line "True patriot love in all thy sons command." This initiative was done so in her memory, in her honour, and in honour of all women who contribute to building our great nation.

Entries were received from all 10 provinces. After considerable review, the selected line chosen was: True patriot love in all persons command. The word "persons" is to be sung with the same "sons" sound as in the current version(i.e. True patriot love in all per/sons command.)

A shortlist had been submitted to three members of the original author's (Robert Stanley Weir's) descendants. The shortlist can be seen at www.publicpoetry.wordpress.com

The idea of replacing a poet's words(even a long-departed one) is not to be taken lightly. If O Canada was not Canada's national anthem, designated by Parliamentary decree, the original author's work ought not be altered.

However, the object of ensuring the anthem reflect gender inclusivity is significant. This was the underlying reason for initiating the "contest." Another major object was to maintain as best as possible Judge Robert Stanley Weir's original spirit and words.

"I favour #3 (True patriot love in all persons command) as it will mean the least disruption to the way we sing it now, even though the sentiment of #1(Faithful and diverse, in unity we stand) is most appealing," commented Sonia Weir Stairs of British Columbia, a Judge Weir great-granddaughter.


Another Weir family member, Timothy J. Foulkes of New Brunswick found the "person" version acceptable.

"I was singing O Canada to myself last night on a walk through the woods and, like Sonia, I also like "per sons" because it can be sung by hold-outs who wish to sing "thy sons" without creating disharmony," wrote Foulkes(grandson of Judge Weir) in an email.

Another Weir family member, Stephen W.W. Simpson of Quebec, submitted his comments by telephone.

This recommendation has been forwarded to the Canadian Senate, as the amendment contains an historic Senate reference. More information about the Persons reference can be seen at The Persons Case . Regardless of the process that ultimately comes forward, we seek your support.

The individual who submitted the selected line has requested anonymity, citing "the credit for O Canada is rightfully Robert Stanley Weir's." The Foundation for Public Poetry agrees.

It looks like the issue is going into overtime.

I'm not sure who you are, as it seems you signed up just to post this, but "in all persons command" sounds absolutely ridiculous.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by flameswin

WTF?????????

I hate it because of it's religious. Other people don't like it because it excludes immigrants and women. Hasn't that already been covered?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SebC

I hate it because of it's religious. Other people don't like it because it excludes immigrants and women. Hasn't that already been covered?

Bah, people are too PC these days, it's an awesome anthem, it just feels amazing belting it out with other canadians.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Bah, people are too PC these days, it's an awesome anthem, it just feels amazing belting it out with other canadians.

Not for me. It just feels silly. I like Canada, but it's not my native land nor do I feel any more comfortable asking God to keep the country free than I would the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. I want something that feels amazing belting it out with other Canadians, and O Canada isn't it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SebC

Not for me. It just feels silly. I like Canada, but it's not my native land nor do I feel any more comfortable asking God to keep the country free than I would the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. I want something that feels amazing belting it out with other Canadians, and O Canada isn't it.

Wow, well I'd imagine you're in a very small minority with that opinion. The rest of us will continue to belt it out with pride.

[IceMan]

Originally Posted by SebC

Not for me. It just feels silly. I like Canada, but it's not my native land nor do I feel any more comfortable asking God to keep the country free than I would the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. I want something that feels amazing belting it out with other Canadians, and O Canada isn't it.

Are you kidding me? Did you watch the Olympics. If you didn't sing our anthem and not get goosebumps while doing it, there's something really wrong with you.

Our National anthem is awesome and shouldn't be changed at all.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by IceMan xMVPx

Are you kidding me? Did you watch the Olympics. If you didn't sing our anthem and not get goosebumps while doing it, there's something really wrong with you.

Our National anthem is awesome and shouldn't be changed at all.

Didn't watch too much of the Olympics. Mostly because I was there. Wanted to join in the singing but the crappy lyrics just ruin it. Later on I started singing it, but changed the lyrics to suit myself.

I guess there's something really wrong with me because I actually care what I'm singing.

[Thor]

I really dislike the 'God keep our land" mostly because I know the history of it, and as someone who follows secular separation of church/state that really bothers me, as #1 it wasn't part of the original song and has much more meaning than someones sex.

If this discussion wasn't happening, I honestly could care less about that God word, but its up so I think the original concern is pretty limp, this one has some actual merit since we have around 20% of this population as secular, non religious; if not more.

The fact God was inserted by religious special interest bugs me, but ultimately it bugs me because it says God should keep our land glorious and free, but we all know that its up to us to do that, and I find that the most annoying especially considering our men/women dying to protect us for us, its not god or his angels in Afghanistan that are doing our fighting.

Thats why I want it changed to "lets keep our land...." instead of "God keep our land..."

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by John Doe

This whole issue is a diversion from other potential problems (prorogation of Parliament, Afghanistan Detainee issue, deficit, Rights & Democracy, etc.) that the Conservatives have. They have no intention of ever doing this. In fact, Peter McKay and some Conservative back-bench MP's have already come out against the change, most likely with the blessing of the PMO.

This.

The Tories have had a very tough couple of months in a PR sense, and they aren't fools; they know that once you start to lose credibility it's very hard to win it back.

They're just changing the subject--they don't care if you're mad about it, because a) they have no intention of following through with it and b) they'd rather you were mad about this than about something of substance.

And judging from how much people seem to care about this very superficial issue, it's working.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What do you mean god wasn't part of the original lyrics?

There have been multiple versions and they all mention god

The Dr Richardson version had the lyrics

" O Canada! Our fathers' land of old
Thy brow is crown'd with leaves of red and gold.
Beneath the shade of the Holy Cross
Thy children own their birth
No stains thy glorious annals gloss
Since valour shield thy hearth.
Almighty God! On thee we call
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall,
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall."

The McCoulloch version which never really took off

" O Canada! in praise of thee we sing;
From echoing hills our anthems proudly ring.
With fertile plains and mountains grand
With lakes and rivers clear,
Eternal beauty, thos dost stand
Throughout the changing year.
Lord God of Hosts! We now implore
Bless our dear land this day and evermore,
Bless our dear land this day and evermore."

The Buchan version

" O Canada, our heritage, our love
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to see throughout their length
From Pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide
Unflinchingly we'll stand
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore."

The Weir version (official)

"O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North, strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free !
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee."

So unless I'm missing something. They all mention god in one form or another.

Weir's original lyrics from 1908, consisting of three verses, did not contain the word sons, instead using the somewhat archaic "thou dost in us command", and it contained no religious reference.[1][10][19] Weir decided to change his lyrics to "in all thy sons command" in 1914,[20] and in 1926 added a fourth verse of a religious nature.[21]

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

And judging from how much people seem to care about this very superficial issue, it's working.

Hrm... I don't know how that works. If you are having a bad PR time, you throw out an idea that will piss people off? It will get those that don't want the anthem changed angry just for suggesting it, and it will get those that do want it changed angry when they don't even go two days before reversing the plan. I don't see how that helps anything.

[Jetsfan]

Originally Posted by publicpoetry

Following the tragic death of Calgary Herald journalist Michelle Lang in Afghanistan, the Foundation for Public Poetry/Fondation Poésie Publique in January 2010 commenced a contest to rewrite the line "True patriot love in all thy sons command." This initiative was done so in her memory, in her honour, and in honour of all women who contribute to building our great nation.

Entries were received from all 10 provinces. After considerable review, the selected line chosen was: True patriot love in all persons command. The word "persons" is to be sung with the same "sons" sound as in the current version(i.e. True patriot love in all per/sons command.)

A shortlist had been submitted to three members of the original author's (Robert Stanley Weir's) descendants. The shortlist can be seen at www.publicpoetry.wordpress.com

The idea of replacing a poet's words(even a long-departed one) is not to be taken lightly. If O Canada was not Canada's national anthem, designated by Parliamentary decree, the original author's work ought not be altered.

However, the object of ensuring the anthem reflect gender inclusivity is significant. This was the underlying reason for initiating the "contest." Another major object was to maintain as best as possible Judge Robert Stanley Weir's original spirit and words.

"I favour #3 (True patriot love in all persons command) as it will mean the least disruption to the way we sing it now, even though the sentiment of #1(Faithful and diverse, in unity we stand) is most appealing," commented Sonia Weir Stairs of British Columbia, a Judge Weir great-granddaughter.


Another Weir family member, Timothy J. Foulkes of New Brunswick found the "person" version acceptable.

"I was singing O Canada to myself last night on a walk through the woods and, like Sonia, I also like "per sons" because it can be sung by hold-outs who wish to sing "thy sons" without creating disharmony," wrote Foulkes(grandson of Judge Weir) in an email.

Another Weir family member, Stephen W.W. Simpson of Quebec, submitted his comments by telephone.

This recommendation has been forwarded to the Canadian Senate, as the amendment contains an historic Senate reference. More information about the Persons reference can be seen at The Persons Case . Regardless of the process that ultimately comes forward, we seek your support.

The individual who submitted the selected line has requested anonymity, citing "the credit for O Canada is rightfully Robert Stanley Weir's." The Foundation for Public Poetry agrees.

It looks like the issue is going into overtime.

So if a female journalist dies we have to re-write the nation anthem...

What about the male soldiers who died with her?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Hrm... I don't know how that works. If you are having a bad PR time, you throw out an idea that will piss people off? It will get those that don't want the anthem changed angry just for suggesting it, and it will get those that do want it changed angry when they don't even go two days before reversing the plan. I don't see how that helps anything.

Because it dominates the conversation, but in the end nobody cares THAT much. The end result will be that the gov't will "listen" by not changing the anthem, and we will all forget about it--and all the stuff that was hampering the Tories' agenda over the last six months will be an equally distant memory.

It's actually very shrewd politics.

[OutOfTheCube]

They can change it all they want. Good luck getting people to change how they sing it.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Thor

Weir's original lyrics from 1908, consisting of three verses, did not contain the word sons, instead using the somewhat archaic "thou dost in us command", and it contained no religious reference.[1][10][19] Weir decided to change his lyrics to "in all thy sons command" in 1914,[20] and in 1926 added a fourth verse of a religious nature.[21]

It's kind of strange that that senator is the only one to mention finding this original text. I can't find any mention of it anyplace else on the net... No mention of where she found it, how she found, or where it is now. Kind of odd, especially considering there's no mention of it on the Canadian Heritage website.

I feel the need to question Wikipedia on this, amongst many other things.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

It's kind of strange that that senator is the only one to mention finding this original text. I can't find any mention of it anyplace else on the net... No mention of where she found it, how she found, or where it is now. Kind of odd, especially considering there's no mention of it on the Canadian Heritage website.

I feel the need to question Wikipedia on this, amongst many other things.

It's on the Canadian Heritage site. Check here...

http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/s...em-eng.cfm#a13

...and go to the 'Original Poem by Weir' link.