Apple: The New Microsoft

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Azure

Gah.

Same difference.

No, no they're not

[Azure]

You're just a Apple fanboy.

[FanIn80]

...and Post #22 takes it! Since the line was set at 25 posts, the House wins!

That's all, ladies and gentlemen, that's all. We'll see you again in the next Apple thread!

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

...and Post #22 takes it! Since the line was set at 25 posts, the House wins!

That's all, ladies and gentlemen, that's all. We'll see you again in the next Apple thread!

Next time like the Wookie win.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Google should just buy Palm right now at pennies on the dollar for all their patents.

Getting into a protracted patent suit is just so anti innovation and a clear offensive strategy to try and hold onto their market share. I think Apple sees the writing on the wall with Android that it will be the next 'Windows' of the phone OS'. All of the IBM clones will choose to adopt Android squeezing Apple's market share to their traditional levels. They'll also squeeze margins as Android is free to use.

However Apple had to think that they couldn't ride the iPhone gravy train for much longer. The market will catch up. Unless of course Apple can corner the touchscreen features through enforcing their patents. God I hope not.

This would make more sense if Apple actually had a lot of market share, but in fact they don't. Symbian rules the market by a lot.

Apple's run by a control freak.

[FanIn80]

Nokia Symbian OS
- 9 years on the market
- Multiple currently-produced product lines, with dozens of models
- 46.9% market share
- Down 5.5% market share over last year

RIM BlackBerry OS
- 11 years on the market
- 10 currently-produced product lines, with dozens of models
- 19.9% market share
- Up 3.2% market share over last year

Apple iPhone OS
- 3 years on the market
- 2 currently-produced product lines, with 8 models
- 14.4% market share
- Up 6.2% market share over last year

Microsoft Windows Mobile
- 10 years on the market
- Countless currently-produced product lines, with countless models, spanning multiple manufacturers
- 8.7% market share
- Down 3.12% market share over last year

Google Android OS
- 2 years on the market
- Dozens of currently-produced product lines, with multiple models, spanning multiple manufacturers
- 3.9% market share
- Up 3.4% market share over last year

Palm Web OS
- 1 year on the market
- 2 currently-produced product lines, with 3 models
- 0.7% market share
- Up 0.7% market share over last year

[REDVAN]

My iPhone seems laggy since the new software (3.0).

I have 3G and don't want a new 3gs just to get my old performance back.

The only thing I use the iPhone for other than usual phone stuff, is web-browsing. There must be a better option out there than Safari. Bleh!

iPhone is an excellent technology that brought shiney new devices to the masses. Just not sure I want to be part of the masses forever.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Nokia Symbian OS
- 9 years on the market
- Multiple currently-produced product lines, with dozens of models
- 46.9% market share
- Down 5.5% market share over last year

RIM BlackBerry OS
- 11 years on the market
- 10 currently-produced product lines, with dozens of models
- 19.9% market share
- Up 3.2% market share over last year

Apple iPhone OS
- 3 years on the market
- 2 currently-produced product lines, with 8 models
- 14.4% market share
- Up 6.2% market share over last year

Microsoft Windows Mobile
- 10 years on the market
- Countless currently-produced product lines, with countless models, spanning multiple manufacturers
- 8.7% market share
- Down 3.12% market share over last year

Google Android OS
- 2 years on the market
- Dozens of currently-produced product lines, with multiple models, spanning multiple manufacturers
- 3.9% market share
- Up 3.4% market share over last year

Palm Web OS
- 1 year on the market
- 2 currently-produced product lines, with 3 models
- 0.7% market share
- Up 0.7% market share over last year

Good table. However you kind of gloss over what's going on by saying what the percentage point increase is in market share not the actual percent increase.

For example, Apple increased their number of units by over 200% from 2008 to 2009, while increasing their market share by 6.2 percentage points while account for 40% of total market growth. Impressive.

However, Google increased their number of units by over 1000% account for 18% of the total market growth. This is why Apple is scared.

[Shazam]

Historically, Apple has never ever cared about market share.

Why should they start now?

[sclitheroe]

It's pretty clear that a lot of people have no idea how patents play out in business. If a company doesn't obtain patents, they expose themselves to lawsuits from competing companies that do patent ideas, who then come looking for licensing fees or cessation of a product that includes the technology. The reverse is also true - if you don't enforce and litigate your patents, you run the risk of losing your exclusivity and hence your competitive advantage as competitors take your ideas and monetize them for their shareholders, rather than your own.

Either way, you have an obligation to your shareholders. All these companies are in it for the money, and this is the (broken it may be) way that intellectual property is handled in the technology business.

So turn it into an Apple rant all you want, but they all operate this way, and they all have a responsibility to their shareholders to act this way. To do otherwise would be to expose themselves to monumental risk and potential loss of revenue streams.

[QuadCityImages]

Its one thing if you're fighting it out over the idea of pinch to zoom (even though I believe Microsoft was already doing something very similar during its work on Surface) which is somewhat a new idea.

However, some of their patents are so ridiculously vague and common-sense, that its just silly. Swipe to unlock? I think Apple stole that from every sliding switch that previously existed in the world...

The real issue at hand, is does this lawsuit help or hurt innovation and consumers. I don't see how anyone can claim it helps either in any way.

[Shazam]

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6920574/claims.html

Here's one of Apple's patents, where they patent variable wattage.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by QuadCityImages

Its one thing if you're fighting it out over the idea of pinch to zoom (even though I believe Microsoft was already doing something very similar during its work on Surface) which is somewhat a new idea.

However, some of their patents are so ridiculously vague and common-sense, that its just silly. Swipe to unlock? I think Apple stole that from every sliding switch that previously existed in the world...

The real issue at hand, is does this lawsuit help or hurt innovation and consumers. I don't see how anyone can claim it helps either in any way.

Silly patents? If you don't file them, someone else does. So you aim for as broad and vague a patent as you can get, every single time you file. To do otherwise would be silly.

It's disappointing to realize that all companies have to play this game, but its been going on for a long time, and if you don't play, not only do you not have recourse when someone does rip your intellectual property off, you won't be around long enough to do anything about it anyways.

I also think that without patents, there is a very compelling case to say that innovation would be harmed. Instead of having a means to do R&D, and then benefit by holding a patent and thus manufacturing exclusivity, you'd have tons of companies simply sitting around waiting for the next big idea to come along, and then copy it. There would be no incentive to invest in development, if someone else is going to do it for you.

[QuadCityImages]

Come on... I understand how serious patent infringement could hurt innovation. These aren't serious patents. They never should have been granted. How much R&D did it take to make a touch screen version of this to unlock your phone?

[Azure]

Yeah, that is what gets me as well.

Technically Apple didn't do crap all to 'invent' that 'unlock' feature.

Makes you really scratch your head wondering why they would go after HTC over something so petty and stupid.

Now if they stole their touchscreen designs and copied the engineering stuff, then it would be a different story.

[photon]

But if they grant the patents to a company, the company might as well defend them (or has to in some cases), it's not Apple's fault the patents got granted.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, that is what gets me as well.

Technically Apple didn't do crap all to 'invent' that 'unlock' feature.

Makes you really scratch your head wondering why they would go after HTC over something so petty and stupid.

Now if they stole their touchscreen designs and copied the engineering stuff, then it would be a different story.

Well that's not how patents work.

Why aren't people up in arms up Nokia for suing Apple for 13 patent infringements? People don't seem to care that Kodak is suing Apple and RIM for camera phone picture preview ? Minerva is suing Apple, HTC, Palm, Motorola and LG for the patent on 'portable media device'. Apple, Google and Microsoft are all being sued for file preview based icons. Google has applied for and was denied a trademark for using the word Android but they are using it even though it was granted previously to another software company and they are being sued.

No uproar over the fact that Facebook is trying to patent the 'newsfeed'?

This is how the technology business works. If you don't apply for, protect and enforce your company's innovations, you die.

Like Palm.

Licensing is huge $$$.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Barnes

This is how the technology business works. If you don't apply for, protect and enforce your company's innovations, you die.

Like Palm.

Licensing is huge $$$.

I think, to a degree, the patent power struggle is also a kind of very abstract, high level strategic game for these companies too. It keeps the balance of power in check, and through their legal posturing it also allows companies to judge where their competition is heading and what technology they truly value. I'm sure the court documents that are used to uphold and tear down patent claims also reveal a lot of information about how, where, and how much investment and work is being done in R&D as well.

By watching how vigorously HTC and Google defend themselves, and which patents they work hardest to have dismissed, Apple gains intel on their future directions, as well as what R&D has already been done. You could almost look at the legal manoeuvring as a way of scouting what other companies are doing under the covers.

Patent lawsuits could also be used strategically to feint and mislead other companies about your true technological direction, or distract them while you bear down on other internal projects.

Ultimately, though, I do think Apple is out to make the competition suffer a little. It's pretty ironic that a few short years after the introduction of the iPhone, every single player in the market now has a touch screen phone with an app store of sorts. Apple certainly would like to make the competition suffer a little for riding the wave of popularity they have built around the smartphone market, particularly when the competition is doing so little to differentiate or improve on the model.

[Russic]

I'm curious why people all of a sudden think apple is evil. They are pretty much doing what they've always done ... I guess more people are just paying attention.

As mentioned before, patent issues come up with all companies. Apple is a
very polarizing company so they tend to generate a lot of attention when really what they're doing isn't far outside the realm of normal business practices.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Russic

I'm curious why people all of a sudden think apple is evil. They are pretty much doing what they've always done ... I guess more people are just paying attention.

Simply put, because Apple is awesome.


But I agree with you that in the last decade Apple has been given way more attention. In fact I think the only place at U of A you won't see an overwhelming number of MacBooks is with the Computer Engineers.