Ovechkin pushes a Russian fan in Vancouver?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Diet Water

I learned a while ago that this isn't a good place for a Crosby / Ovechkin debate.

Might as well just concede to the logic that playing on a better team makes you a better player.

Crosby doesn't have even close to the offensive support that Ovechkin has. The Caps have almost 40 more goals than any other team in the NHL at the Olympic break. Caps have 4 point-per-game players to Pittsburghs 2. Pittsburgh has those same 2 guys with 40+ points right now and Washington has 7!! The better team debate shouldn't be even close, but it is. There's 1 really big reason for that and I bet you can guess what it is.

[Netskot]

fair enough.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by Netskot

yet so many of you disagreed?

What's the common denominator? A website full of Canadians?

My my you are quick aren't you?

You are niether funny nor insightful. The Crosby Ovi debate has raged on for years now. Prior to the olymipics I used to think I would rather have AO on my team than Sid, but after watching the shear determination, heart, grit and talent that Sid brings you are correct It is no longer up for debate. Sid > Ovi
This is so true especially when it counts. You can be the highest scoring player in your street hockey tournament but if you can't translate that to the NHL it doesn't mean anything. Like wise you can be the highest scorer in regular season but if you can't translate that to big games ie playoffs it doesn't mean anything.

[Diet Water]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Crosby doesn't have even close to the offensive support that Ovechkin has. The Caps have almost 40 more goals than any other team in the NHL at the Olympic break. Caps have 4 point-per-game players to Pittsburghs 2. Pittsburgh has those same 2 guys with 40+ points right now and Washington has 7!! The better team debate shouldn't be even close, but it is. There's 1 really big reason for that and I bet you can guess what it is.

I am referring to last year, the Penguins were a better team than Washington. We will see what happens this year.

[Netskot]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Crosby doesn't have even close to the offensive support that Ovechkin has. The Caps have almost 40 more goals than any other team in the NHL at the Olympic break. Caps have 4 point-per-game players to Pittsburghs 2. Pittsburgh has those same 2 guys with 40+ points right now and Washington has 7!! The better team debate shouldn't be even close, but it is. There's 1 really big reason for that and I bet you can guess what it is.

I would argue that the reason Caps score more and have more productive players would be BECAUSE of Ovechkin, no?

[Diet Water]

Originally Posted by Chingas

My my you are quick aren't you?

You are niether funny nor insightful. The Crosby Ovi debate has raged on for years now. Prior to the olymipics I used to think I would rather have AO on my team than Sid, but after watching the shear determination, heart, grit and talent that Sid brings you are correct It is no longer up for debate. Sid > Ovi
This is so true especially when it counts. You can be the highest scoring player in your street hockey tournament but if you can't translate that to the NHL it doesn't mean anything. Like wise you can be the highest scorer in regular season but if you can't translate that to big games ie playoffs it doesn't mean anything.

Ovechkin's playoff PPG is better than Crosby's.

[Netskot]

Originally Posted by Chingas

My my you are quick aren't you?

You are niether funny nor insightful. The Crosby Ovi debate has raged on for years now. Prior to the olymipics I used to think I would rather have AO on my team than Sid, but after watching the shear determination, heart, grit and talent that Sid brings you are correct It is no longer up for debate. Sid > Ovi

Crosby can have all the shear determination, heart and grit you want, he is still less talented than Ovechkin. In addition, Crosby's support cast, overall, was better than Ovechkin's. I don't think it's fair to judge them based on that.

This reminds me of an argument people put forth of T. Brady being better than P. Manning because he has more rings.

[Ark2]

People are funny. Ovechkin is seen as a choker, because, among other things, he played poorly in game 7 vs. the Pens in last year's playoffs. That was arguably the only game that he did not dominate in, yet he is not a clutch player. Crosby, on the other hand, completely disappeared during the last two rounds of the playoffs, but he was able to ride his teammates past Carolina and Detroit, so he is the better player. Pure comedy.

[pope04]

Originally Posted by Netskot

No. Having more skill is the definition of being better.

Being able to use your skill under pressure is another.

[pope04]

Originally Posted by Netskot

Crosby can have all the shear determination, heart and grit you want, he is still less talented than Ovechkin. In addition, Crosby's support cast, overall, was better than Ovechkin's. I don't think it's fair to judge them based on that.

This reminds me of an argument people put forth of T. Brady being better than P. Manning because he has more rings.

Nice backtrack. Your first quip in this thread is "Ovechkin is a better player than Crosby."

Obviously two different things.

[Kesler17]

Ovechkin and Semin were at Venue last night, a popular club on Granville.

[kremb]

Reckless - one thing Crosby certainly isn't.

[theg69]

Seriously, just GIVE IT UP already. Its like arguing apples and oranges. Some will prefer one, and some will just prefer the other.

Personally, I have always liked Crosby better because of his pure grit, determination, and ability to work within a team. Ovechkin typifies the Russian player, highly skilled, flashy, will to win... but highly individualistic. Until he leads his team to a major championship or title, I would build a team around Crosby over Ovechkin.

@Netskot: really, you should've stopped after you completedly contradicted yourself on that one post (you still haven't really acknowledged how poorly you worded it).
Seriously, let everyone have their own opinion.

The argument re: the calibre of the NHL teams they play for. That is crap. Washington is as good a team as Pittsburgh with as many superstars (Backstrom, Greene, Semin say hi). You guys (Diet Water included) make it sound like the Caps are the Edmonton Oilers without Ovechkin. They are two talented teams with two high profile players that made it to the seventh game of the playoffs and people are merely pointing out that everytime Crosby and Ovechkin seem to meet, Crosby's team will usually win.
Now for the sake of argument, is the Canadian junior team THAT much better than the Russian junior team when Ovechkin and Crosby played for them, and even this olympics, is the Canadian team THAT much better than Russian team (hell, Russia was ranked first coming into the olympics).
The resouding answer is NO, these teams are comparables and guess what, Crosby and Canada won both times.

You are entitled to your own opinion. I don't expect you to change yours, but I would also expect you don't expect to change mine or anybody else that thinks differently.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Diet Water

I am referring to last year, the Penguins were a better team than Washington. We will see what happens this year.

You mean when Washington was up 3-2 in the series vs. Pittsburgh and Crosby outplayed Ovi in Game 6 and 7 to allow Pitt to move on...

yep...Ovi and Wash folded like a cheap tent and I guess Pitt was the better team and Crosby was the better leader and player.

Again...who is the better player ( champion) ?

[Diet Water]

Originally Posted by timbit

You mean when Washington was up 3-2 in the series vs. Pittsburgh and Crosby outplayed Ovi in Game 6 and 7 to allow Pitt to move on...

yep...Ovi and Wash folded like a cheap tent and I guess Pitt was the better team and Crosby was the better leader and player.

Again...who is the better player ( champion) ?

Ovechkin had 4 points in game 6 + 7

Crosby had 5.

Yeah, huge difference. I didn't realize it was that 5th point that was the difference between disappearing in big games, and being clutch. Your logic is awesome.

On a side note, Malkin also had 5 points in those 2 games.

Green, Backstrom, and Semin all combined for 3 points.

But none of that matters, Crosby was the only reason the Penguins won the cup!!!1!

[PIMking]

so no "in soviet russia" jokes?

CP let me down.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Crosby would have gave the fan a timbit.

So would Paul Baxter.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by PIMking

so no "in soviet russia" jokes?

CP let me down.

In Soviet Russia you let CP down.

[frostiex]

Originally Posted by Netskot

Care to deconstruct my post?

JUst because Crosby outplays Ovechkin in their teams' meetings doesn't make him better.

Hasn't Ovechkin outscored Crosby in every season they've played in the NHL?

Ovechkin > Crosby.

If you are counting goals only...then maybe. But Gretzky is still consider one of the best player for being a setup guy. Not only for goals scored. Remember Gretzky's office?
Being a public figure, specially hockey players. You are not being judged only by your scoring abilities. But what type of person you are. How you treat your fans. This is why we all love Iggy, not just when he scores.

Crosby is still > Ovechkin

[MJM]

Why do you people even debate with people like Diet Water? He's clearly an Ovechikin fan boy in every sense of the word. There's nothing you can say (or any stat or fact on the planet) that is going to change their mind. My bet is you are arguing with a teenager. He should have made my ignore list last time he talked about Ovechkin, he's made it now.