Tiger Woods "Transgressions" Thread - Golfin' Ain't Easy

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just noticed this...you are aware that Escalades are made by Cadillac...right?

Uh yes, which is why Buick would like to claim a share of a market that they don't currently have.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I guess I'm still missing the point. What does "making multi million dollar deals at a much higher level than retail" have to do with it? Do they drink more Gatorade while they are at it?

Tiger shills mass produced consumer goods to regular people. Do you disagree with this?

The money got really big when golf became ridiculously popular. Was there a giant increase in "ultra rich country club types", or was there a giant increase in normal people watching golf, in a large part due to this Tiger character?



They are relatively high-end when you don't compare them to anything but American cars. In other words, they are not high-end at all.



I gotta admit, I don't know much about golf equipment. Is Nike considered "top of the line"? Is Nike what the money-is-no-object crowd buys? I saw some Nike clubs and shoes at Sport Chek. Is that the best place for golf clubs? Is that where the pros, the millionaires and the ultra-rich shop?

When I mentioned above retail I was thinking about the accenture like sponsors, companies that are/were using Woods as a means to inflate their presence and prestige in the business world. Accenture isn't marketing to the average joe, they're marketing to business owners and high level management, the type of people who are memebers at upscale golf clubs and who are often very image concious. The gatorade type deals are a totally different thing, but those companies also care about public perception.

Buick is pursuing the luxury market, those are the people they care about. I don't think Buicks are particualrly luxurious, but they are aiming for the same market that the likes of Cadillac have targeted. Aligning with Woods gives them exposure in that market. Let's not forget that golf is largely a rich white guy sport.

As for the clubs, Nike isn't all that great of a brand, but they sell way more clubs due to their alignment with Woods. The goal is to convince the people who buy clubs every year that they should get the same stuff Tiger plays with. While having the average guy buy those clubs is good, having the people who buy new clubs all the time be sold is much better.

Bottom line is that there are plenty of people out there who care about the image portion of this whole thing, it's not just about on course results. Different market segments value image differently, and the country club types are much more likely to care what wearing a TW hat conveys.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Uh yes, which is why Buick would like to claim a share of a market that they don't currently have.

Yet Cadillac's start about about double what a Buick's SUV goes for.

For some reason I don't see the "ultra-rich" pushing to get their hands on some $35K car. In terms of car prices that's peanuts!

When you look at Tiger's sponsorships, Buick, Nike Golf, EA Sports, Gatorade, Gillette and Tag Heuer none of those scream out to me that they are directed at these "ultra-rich" guys.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by valo403

Buick is pursuing the luxury market, those are the people they care about. I don't think Buicks are particualrly luxurious, but they are aiming for the same market that the likes of Cadillac have targeted.

If GM wants more of the luxury market, just make more Cadillacs.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Yet Cadillac's start about about double what a Buick's SUV goes for.

For some reason I don't see the "ultra-rich" pushing to get their hands on some $35K car. In terms of car prices that's peanuts!

When you look at Tiger's sponsorships, Buick, Nike Golf, EA Sports, Gatorade, Gillette and Tag Heuer none of those scream out to me that they are directed at these "ultra-rich" guys.

And Accenture? $3000+ watches are for the average guy?

Maybe Buicks aren't for the ultra rich, but my point remains, his image matters. Winning tournaments will help people forget about his image, but he can't just pretend like nothing happened and hope it'll go away. As other people have pointed out past dominant athletes have missed out on tons of sponsorships due to image. Kobe Bryant is just recently getting to the point where companies are comfortable associating with him, and he's in a sport that is much less judgmental. The golf market is largely made up of people who care about the image they portray, and companies are aware that plenty of people in that market segment will shy away from products if they percieve a connection to something undesirable.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

If GM wants more of the luxury market, just make more Cadillacs.

That's a good point, Buick is probably a bad example of what I was getting at.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

And Accenture? $3000+ watches are for the average guy?

Okay so two sponsors? What about the rest?

Also $3K for a watch isn't that outrageous in the big picture of watch prices and/or brands out there.

I would say most sponsors of Tiger Woods are trying to grab the attention of people like me and you, not the ultra-rich.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Okay so two sponsors? What about the rest?

Also $3K for a watch isn't that outrageous in the big picture of watch prices and/or brands out there.

I would say most sponsors of Tiger Woods are trying to grab the attention of people like me and you, not the ultra-rich.

Attention yes, but not negative attention. No brand wants to be known as the backer of a guy who regularly screws around on his wife and doesn't feel the need to at least pretend he's sorry about it. I don't personally care about what he did, tons of people do it every day, but brands are image concious and that's not an image they want associated with them. Why do you think the Gatorade focus bottles with Woods on them were pulled almost immediately?

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Attention yes, but not negative attention. No brand wants to be known as the backer of a guy who regularly screws around on his wife and doesn't feel the need to at least pretend he's sorry about it. I don't personally care about what he did, tons of people do it every day, but brands are image concious and that's not an image they want associated with them. Why do you think the Gatorade focus bottles with Woods on them were pulled almost immediately?

So they could quickly re-wrap them in a normal label and not have the headache of people crying about it? Brands are over cautious because of the way people are now a days. Everyone needs something to bitch about and something to gossip about. This is why people want answers not because it will make the situation better but because they want to know every little detail.

But again were Gatorade pulling those bottles because of average joe or because of the "ultra-rich"?

[iggypop]

HOOT I don't understand your argument. You're saying that he would have made the same amount of money in the last ~10 years in sponsorships regardless of whether he was a good or bad image.

Then, why did they all drop him when his image tanked?

Of course his image matters. As far as sponsors were concerned, His squeaky clean imaged mattered just as much as his performance on the course.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by iggypop

Then, why did they all drop him when his image tanked?

Not all his sponsors have dropped him though. So maybe a few sponsors were relying on his 'perfect' image but I can bet you if he was the bad boy of golf and winning like he does there would be just as big of a line up to sponsor him. You don't think that once he hits the course and starts winning again there won't be sponsor to replace those that bailed on him?

It's all about winning!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by valo403

When I mentioned above retail I was thinking about the accenture like sponsors, companies that are/were using Woods as a means to inflate their presence and prestige in the business world. Accenture isn't marketing to the average joe, they're marketing to business owners and high level management, the type of people who are memebers at upscale golf clubs and who are often very image concious. The gatorade type deals are a totally different thing, but those companies also care about public perception.

Fair enough. I don't even know what Accenture is. Any "disagreement" we have is who exactly his destroyed image was catering too. Either way, we know he's lost it. The Gatorade people, the Accenture people, and everyone in between, he's like kryptonite now.

I wonder if he can ever get it back. He's going to be the butt of sex jokes for the rest of his life and even if he recovers some of it, he's tainted forever.

Or maybe he can run with it..

"The incomparable 2011 Buick La Crosse. V8 power, All-Wheel Drive, and an elegantly appointed backseat spacious enough for you and a friend to do just about anything you want" *wink*

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

A bigger question might be, will he ever be the same golfer again? Golf, more than almost any other sport, is primarily mental. Will he lose that edge he once had?

[iggypop]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Not all his sponsors have dropped him though. So maybe a few sponsors were relying on his 'perfect' image but I can bet you if he was the bad boy of golf and winning like he does there would be just as big of a line up to sponsor him. You don't think that once he hits the course and starts winning again there won't be sponsor to replace those that bailed on him?

It's all about winning!

Maybe. But realistically if Tiger came onto the tour as the bad boy 10 years ago I really just can't see him being worth >1 Billion Dollars right now. Sure they are 'other' sponsors that would have taken him on, but the real money is in pairing his phenomenal play with his perfect image.

And if it really was the case that he could have just as much sponsorship dollars with other sponsors in the future, then why is he working so hard to keep / regain his clean image. His image is where the money is.

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

A bigger question might be, will he ever be the same golfer again? Golf, more than almost any other sport, is primarily mental. Will he lose that edge he once had?

I'd almost think it would go the other way though. You're right golf is so mental, and he performed at that level while managing to hide all this from the public. Now that his head is clear, he may only get better.
That would be scary.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

A bigger question might be, will he ever be the same golfer again? Golf, more than almost any other sport, is primarily mental. Will he lose that edge he once had?

Now that he won't be "taking the edge off" so often, he will be like Jebus with a golf club?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by valo403

And Accenture? $3000+ watches are for the average guy?

I'm an average guy, and I own a $1600 tag. Nothing that special. They're not even close to being in the realm $120,000 Breitling Bentley's, or a Zenith. Those are rich guy watches.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by pylon

I'm an average guy, and I own a $1600 tag. Nothing that special. They're not even close to being in the realm $120,000 Breitling Bentley's, or a Zenith. Those are rich guy watches.

I have a $1600 TAG, but I'm smarter than you - I got mine at the Silk Market.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by valo403

Uh yes, which is why Buick would like to claim a share of a market that they don't currently have.

Uh...to use your condescending BS back on you.....you have GM fighting...GM...to get a share of the market that GM....already has...yes?

Uh yes.

[troutman]

Howard Stern will hold a Tiger Mistress Beauty Pageant, with a $100,000 prize.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_476135.html

Howard Stern is organizing the Tiger Woods Mistress Beauty Pageant, which seeks to crown a $100,000 winner based on criteria such as personality, talent and a swimsuit competition.

According to the Times of London, four of Woods' purported mistresses have signed on to participate in the pageant.

The six-figure prize comes from AshleyMadison.com, a web site designed to facilitate affairs.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by pylon

I'm an average guy, and I own a $1600 tag. Nothing that special. They're not even close to being in the realm $120,000 Breitling Bentley's, or a Zenith. Those are rich guy watches.

You might be an average guy, but most people don't have $1,600 watches. If you think normal/average people often wear $1,600 watches you might be a bit disconnected from what 'average' is.